It is all getting silly now. There was a discussion on one of the lunchtime shows today (you know the kind of magazine show where they have random guests each day to discuss random stuff) and of course the vaccine was being discussed. They had an ex-minister of something on and she was saying how people need to just trust the officials. She used to be health minister I think and was saying if we all knew the ridiculous hoops these companies have to jump through even to get a vaccine into a trial, let alone the public space, we wouldn't question it. I'm sure she's right, so if people were transparent about all these hoops there would be less people (though always would be some) challenging it. But as it is, we're not allowed to know because we're the general public and we're too stupid/not important enough to update.

This show also has an 'audience' of just a few nearby households who all sit in their household bubbles away from the rest. They were asking them their opinions and there was one group of 2 girls who said they wouldn't get it. One said it was because she wanted to be sure there were no long term side effects and once confident, she would have it. The other said she wouldn't because she got the flu jab once but still got the flu so might as well have just gone without. Which is all well and good when it comes to the flu because, well, it's just the flu. Unless you're old or ill anyway, flu is highly unlikely to do much damage. Whereas with Covid there's no predicting it. If it was so predictable, we wouldn't have lockdowns but right now all we know is that people who are already ill *might* be more likely to get the severe version. But I know people with Cushing's who've had it and it was "just the flu" for them (they tested positive so they know it was Covid) and there are plenty of young, fit, healthy people who have died from it. So it's not worth risking it just in case you happen to be that random young, healthy person who dies from it.

I'm like you Ox, getting bored with the same stuff. We know all this, it's not new. Find new stuff and tell us. Keep reiterating the same thing over and over and people just switch off. That's when people will start ignoring you and going out anyway. It's like when your mum keeps telling you not to smoke coz you'll get cancer, eventually the warning just loses all meaning. It's all the unfairness that's getting to people now. Like self-employed getting less support than employed, or how the big shopping chains are able to argue they're "essential" and must stay open when in fact they only have 1 aisle of random food products and the rest of it is household tat, yet the small, local, independant shops that sell that same household tat have to shut because they don't have the food aisle. That's when people get pissed off.

I'm not even sure the government is not being transparent about these processes because they think the population is too stupid to understand (although a good part undoubtedly is ), but just because they are incompetent and don't think about paving the road for vaccine acceptance before we actually get to one. Which isn't much better than the other explanation, granted.

Re: that lady with the flu vaccine, I wonder if she knows that the flu vaccine never offers 100% immunity towards it? That's not how it works. It offers a high degree of protection (less than the proposed corona vaccines, actually) and make it very likely you will fight off an infection before it takes hold, but it doesn't make it impossible to get it. But even if you do get infected it tends to heavily mitigate the severity of the disease, so if you are a bit older and/or have health issues it's almost always worth getting it anyway.

And yeah, the measures are still bizarre. Over here supermarkets are open but all their non-food or utility aisles are closed off - books, toys, games, DVDs and clothing for example. But the other regular stores selling them are also closed. So the government is basically giving the monopoly to mail order companies because....? Who knows? I don't particularly want supermarkets to have the right to sell these but I just don't understand the logic behind forbidding it. What about poor people who don't have a credit card and can't order online? Where do they go? It all seems so ad hoc.

More fun from Belgium: people started to wonder if it was ok to go for skiing trips and it took a few days for the government to come out and 'strongly discourage' it. No fucking shit! How was this even a question? Belgium is barely recovering from a devastating second wave. In fact, why are people still allowed to go there to begin with? It makes 0 sense. Let's not forget that this is one of the primary ways the virus spread so quickly in Western Europe to begin with last spring. From rich people going on skiing trips even when they knew the virus was on the loose. If the government really had a spine they wouldn't just 'discourage' it but just close the goddamn airport for anything else than essential travel over the winter. But they're too chicken shit to butt heads with the tourism industry. But you can't have your cake and eat it - appease the tourism industry AND assume no one will make use of their services. Total weak sauce.

Anyway, how are you and Shiny doing Satis? Texas is looking worse and worse each day.

Well it's as you say Ox, some people are too stupid. Like flu vaccine lady, as you say it's not 100% anyway plus it's always for what they think will be the current strain. That doesn't mean the other strains just go away, otherwise they'd permanently go away. They're still circulating, just in smaller numbers. Plus they say it's something like 2 weeks before the vaccine is working at full strength anyway so if you catch it before that time, you're gonna get flu.

People just don't think. Government or public. Like you say, I know most of the early cases in the UK came from Italian skiing resorts, where they'd been on holiday. The thing is skiing itself probably is relatively ok with Covid. You're out on the slopes, even if you're with someone else you're probably not skiing closer than 2m to them in case you fall and you're in the fresh air. But unless you live right by there you're also sharing a cabin/hotel with someone, interacting with staff, probably going for some drinks in the evening. It's like the kids going to school thing. Yes most of the kids won't get covid/won't get severe covid. But it's everyone else. They still probably carry the virus and pass it to the parents and teachers. My friends at work who have kids have said how, in completely different parts of the country, it's the same when they drop the kids off. Parents and kids crowding round the gates, or rushing past open car windows, no masks on, chatting etc, basically continuing as normal.

I might actually meet a friend next week. We're allowed to meet 1 person outside and kids don't count. It's her birthday and I have the week off so I asked if she wanted to drive by so I could throw her present in the car. She said she'll bring her toddler (yay, lucky me ) and we can go for a walk. I work with her 2 days a week but haven't seen her since March.

We've got more speculation and rubbish going on now too. First of all they've announced a pay freeze for 3 years for those working in the public sector (NHS are exempt from it). I can see both sides of the argument but in theory most public sector workers haven't been as affected by lockdown etc as the rest of us. They probably still have jobs and have been paid full time. I can't blame them fighting it at all but it can't just be the rest of us that bail the country out (and guarantee the MPs won't take a pay freeze). But it's also too sweeping to say they haven't been affected. They might live with someone who's lost their job. Teachers haven't necessarily been working the full time. Those who are clinically vulnerable haven't been or may not be able to start again. I presume it means bus and train drivers (though not sure) who have been working most of the time but on very, very reduced schedules.

The other speculation is around current lockdown. There are rumours it might be extended past 2nd Dec. Then there's the debate of "do we have Christmas" where they're saying for each day we have to 'party' we have to have 5 days of lockdown following it. So if they do 5 days for Christmas we'll be straight into another 25 lockdown. The trouble is no one will listen to the others. My personally couldn't care less. I don't have kids to do Christmas for and I can't see my parents. We always have a small Christmas, just me, Niall and his mum. The more people bugger about, the longer it is until I can see my parents because I can't fly over to France right now and at this rate won't be able to for at least 6 months. But everyone is just whining that they have to have their big celebration and will do it regardless of the governments rules, even when people ask if it'll be worth it if they're burying those relatives in Jan. Which is my entire conundrum. Even if I could fly over to France, is it worth risking me or them dying when we can just chat on Skype? Other big religious festivals have been cancelled or pared back, like Diwali and I haven't even heard anyone mention Hannukah. But Christmas is "celebrated by all" - i.e. we want our presents and fat lunch.

We seem to have vaccines coming out our arses now though! Seems every day a new, very likely viable one is announced. So here's hoping. I saw today there's even potentially one containing antibodies for those people who have suppressed immune systems and can't have a normal jab.

Sorry, went into a long rant haha. Getting more and more frustrated with it all really.

*pokes Satis* Let us know how you guys are doing.

Wow J, thanks for the update, don't blame you not bothering beforehand. I can't even imagine what it's like to be stuck wondering like that. I've said it all through my Cushing's and say it with Covid, the patients have the 'easy' ride mentally, in comparison to friends and family. We know how we feel, what's going on with us, or if we're 'lucky' we're out of it and are oblivious but you guys have to sit by and watch and you just can't tell from the outside. Sending all my best wishes and hugs to your family and hoping he continues to heal nicely.

That is quite... weird. Then again they do say you go into denial as one of the stages when dying. I guess Covid is killing them too quickly to move on to the other stages, especially if they're already in that frame of mind. It horrifies me when you see people with comments like "we don't need a vaccine. Just eat healthily and exercise." Yep, it was healthy lifestyles that virtually erradicated polio, measles and rubella. They also comment it as if they think people who get vaccines assume they don't need to also be healthy, as if we're all going "nah it's fine, I had my jab" *stuffs face with coccaine, 13 burgers and 42 pints of beer whilst watching all LotR films on repeat and heavily smoking*

Well the denial isn't really so much about dying as about the fact that it's caused by covid - so only in that sense they "can't be dying", since covid supposedly doesn't exist. I'm pretty sure the being chained to a hospital bed/oxygen machine and feeling of drowning are enough to make the dying part quite real.

Shame on all those people who have been trying to push the "hoax" narrative on all these poor saps for whatever financial, political or other gain while they full well knew that it's quite real. Trump being the number one culprit of course, tying it in with the rest of his conspiracies and cult-like thinking. Not that I don't blame the people who genuinely believe this shit and are pushing it for that reason, but it's at least they're just stupid and not merely cynically hurting others for their own benefit.

The highlight being the Trump administration pushing two sides of the story of course: On the one hand the "it's a hoax/not as bad as people say" and on the other "give us credit for the vaccine, it's the best vaccine ever". Why would you try to take credit for a vaccine for something that isn't real or not something to worry about? It just doesn't make sense.

Over in Europe the "it's a hoax" crew seems to be a weird mix of far right groups (with delusions about a totalitarian takeover) and leftie alternative 'spriritual' types (pushing stuff like 5G is causing corona, not a virus). I guess it's true what they say, both ends of the crazy spectrum circle back to touch each other. There's also a few corporate right liberal types who are sane but don't care about poor people and want to reopen everything to save their (or their paymasters') wallets but those tend to have lost steam now Europe has been hit hard with a second wave. It's just the crazies now.

Shiny and I are fine... neither of us is infected. Not sure I mentioned this, but my job (the one I'm leaving) announced that we're no longer coming into the office any more due to rising infection rates. Then the next day (or something) they announced we had a positive case in a coworker. Coincidence? Sure. Anyway, due to HIPAA and all that they can't say who it was, but I marginally self-monitored because they couldn't guarantee I hadn't come in contact with the person (I asked). Anyway, all good here. With Shiny's job, she knows all the infections that happen in her buildings, and the rates are steadily climbing. I think she's averaging one per day now... for awhile it was once every few weeks...then once a week... now she sometimes gets several in a single day.

Bleh... anyway, J, I'm glad to hear your father-in-law seems to be getting better, though it sucks it got so serious. Sounds like he may be over the worst of it, though, so here's hoping everything turns out well. Everyone, stay safe!

This weekend he got moved from IC to a normal room.

So there's definitely good progress.

It pissed me off the other day when they were going on about PPE. I found it quite amusing in a black sort of way that there's a big supplier of medical gloves in India I think that has had a massive Covid outbreak. They apparently pretty much use slave labour of course but are one who supplied the UK and no doubt most other countries so far through the pandemic and had put their prices up. I mean honestly, in a time like this the decent thing to do (all companies here, and individuals) would be to just let costs go. Don't pay people but don't charge them either! Entire world for however long, just do your jobs, give out food, etc etc. Suspend bills. I mean I know it'd never work because humans but that's the theory. All pull together, put aside profit for a bit and just survive. Instead not only are we trying to make profit as usual, but actually trying to make more. And the fact that fraud has gone up during the pandemic is just disgusting. But it doesn't take much for me to hate humanity so I'm hardly surprised.

Like you say, the stupid ones can't help it (my favourite at the moment is the "omg the vaccine alters your DNA! Look! It says here! Made from engineered virus RNA! They can change our genes!" - I mean DNA/RNA aren't even the same, the clue is in the different letters and I won't even touch the fact it's the VIRUS that's been altered...) but the smart/ish ones... total knobheads.

Yes definitely just a coincidence there Satis, nothing to read into that at all! Bit horrifying that Shiny knows of so many but at least she DOES know I guess.

The banks here issued a statement on day one: no charity. So that's that.

A lot of banks and other institutions implemented policies for delaying due dates and stuff. So if you're sick or you lost your job or something you wouldn't immediately get dinged for missing payments. I don't know if there's a hidden agenda there, or if it's due to the government handing out money. I'm too old to think people are actually good because it's the right thing to do.

Glad to hear it, J. If he's in a normal room, things must be looking way up. Let's hope he makes a speedy recovery and is back home soon. Any idea how he initially contracted the virus? Sorry if you already mentioned it.

They're both volunteering in a local football club. There was the annual "eating day" (mussels & fries) and they didn't intend to help there at first. But they felt like they couldn't let the others do all the work, so they went there to help in the kitchen and help as a waiter after all. It was when rules aren't that strict anymore, but still with masks and such.

Turns out there was a superspreader probably, since a LOT of people contracted it there, including half of the football team and several of the usuals volunteers.
Sucks.