Man, this game is so good. I've been playing the same map online with random folks and I still haven't beaten it.

I think they other guys I play with aren't so tactically sound though. They don't seem to understand that all you really need is infantry, AT and a mortar.

Edit: Oh and yes Ox, there is a problem with the AT gun line of sight. I deployed an AT gun in a field aiming down the german road so I could engage tanks as soon as possible, but there was a bush in the way and not even direct fire would let me shoot through it. Kinda annoying because as soon as the enemy tank passes that bush, he can engage my AT gun, and from then on it's a 50/50 crapshoot/slugfest to see who kills who first.

Still awesome game

I've played another game or two with Derf and some random dudes yesterday, and I must say that the game is simply glorious in its best moments. It's a steep learning curve and since it's still beta is has a few frustrating aspects, but when things go right it's amazing.

The detail on the maps is enormous. You can loot every item and corpse, everything is destructable to some extent (you can even drive through walls with a tank) and the AI is pretty strong without being a cheater (like in many RTS games). Units or guns are mostly well balanced. A Sherman tank is a formidable presence on a battlefield, but out in the open it'll be very vulnerable and it has limited mobility (anti tank measures). Infantry is mobile and can hide almost anywhere, but is obviously weak as shit - in terms of durability that is, in terms of firepower infantry can be devastating. Artillery and machine guns are formidable for holding a road or point but are easily flanked...and so forth. There is no "make mass unit X and rush" scheme. Well it may work sometimes, but i'll definitely not be the most efficient measure.

There were some moments that me and Derf executed some classic strategies without many words: like when he couldn't really advance on a bunker position with his infantry troops because it has a stationary machine gun covering the way to the bunker entrance. So I rolled in a tank, told Derf to get his infantry behind it and we advanced to the bunker that way. Or when I wanted to move a machine gun up to the same bunker later on (we had it by then) to cover the area under the bunker with it, and he used a 4-man squad to 'bunny-hop' advance, ie he put down supressing fire and advanced on enemy positions as my machine gun moved up a few metres every time, in turn covering his troops and pushing the enemy back.

In short, anyone mildly interested should download the beta and have a spin with us. It's overwhelming at first, but it's amazing and the graphics are great. Also, unlike MoW, it doesn't make my PC freeze up.

I'm a bit torn between playing more and not overdoing the beta for the final game tbh...but i'm siure gonna play a few more games with Derf.

The "bunny-hop" also involved a smoke grenade That was classic. There was no way I would get my 4 dudes in there since those Jerries were well covered and had at least 1 LMG. So I popped a smoke over the wall and rushed forward into grenade range. Started to get the nades out, ready to pull the pins under intense fire and I notice your HMG crew joining in on the plan. To that, I though "suppressing fire!" and the squad fire like madmen into the smoke to help you find a nice spot. That area was pretty much dominated by those 4 dudes and your MG. It was carnage.

Of course, the ensuing counter-attacks drove us back, but only cos we couldn't commit enough men and micro them at the same time. Well, that right flank was my responsibility, but it's freakin hard to take and hold, and pretty much impossible to advance beyond.

The furthest i've gotten on that map is capturing the entire 2nd line. Although by then my game crashed and so it was in vain. Once you get the 2nd line, the enemy is most definitely on the back foot. Although we didn't quite figure out exactly how to take out those 88's and the 1 PaK 40 positioned on the hill. Air strikes helped, but they don't always actually destroy the guns. The only line of advance I think would be the field to the left. It's open, but relatively quiet. If you time it well, you may be able to sneak a couple of mortars behind the bushes and try to bombard the 88 crews.

That smoke grenade was epic as shit. You actually managed to cap the second line once? I've never even seen anyone cap anything above the first line, but I haven't played the game nearly that much and suck, obviously.

I'd say storming it with lots of infantry should work, or attacking it from 3 sides - it can only target so much. At that point you should be drowning in support anyway, so that shouldn't be impossible. And it'd make for an epic 'storm the beaches' moment.

Having said that, I sure as hell hope they include a mission or map where you storm German defences on the beach à la Saving Private Ryan. Hey Derf, do you see your current gaming (skirmishes) as preparation for the co-op campaign/maps or as a goal in itself? I.e. do you think you will keep playing it once the game comes out and the actual campaing is there?

I think however the 2nd line was captured on Easy mode, which actually isn't Easy at all. I would suggest next time we play on Easy since it honestly is more of a medium setting.

Infantry storm could work, but that is completely opposite to my style. I prefer to commit very few infantry for maximum effect, risking very little, taking the time necessary. But i'm not contrary to storm if there is no other option available. I just want to make sure i've ruled out all other possibilities

Oh jesus, yes. I do intend to buy and play the full game. I kind of see the beta as a full game with just 2 maps tbh. I get THAT much enjoyment out of it. I just play for the challenge. My aim is to beat those 2 maps. If I beat them, there WILL be replay value later on because the game is so goddamn chaotic and random, it will be like playing a new map again.

I meant if you'd still play the skirmish maps if you have the entire campaign available, not sure if that was clear. There wasn't a doubt in my mind that you'd buy the game on release. Either way, looking forward to taking another stab at it on easy in the next few days.

Just spent 2 hours AFTER a beta skirmish game doing what I used to do with the original MoW:

- Repairing captured vehicles
- Amassing and grouping men, trucks, armour, guns, etc.
- Putting spare ammo in trucks
- Setting up elaborate defenses to thwart a non-existent counter-attack
- Unloading every mans weapon and make sure they're only carrying necessary items

Total OCD and it's totally useless, but so much fun. I only did 10% of the work, so I decided to stop otherwise I would have literally taken all night until the early hours of the morning.

Screenshots below of the imaginary CO addressing the men after a well fought mission. And the mines I setup at the edge of the map. *Sigh* I swear this accounted for only 10% of the job needed.

Hahaha, you strange strange man. This goes a long way to explain your obsession with gnomes and gas cans in L4D2

Honestly: did do the speech the CO was giving to the men? In your head? Or maybe even out loud?

lol - no no. Nothing past some NCO shouting "Gather round!"

lol, man, Ox is right, this explains many things.

Haha!

Hey how'd you decide who'd become the CO? Highest rank surely, but there must have been more than one of those so...what did you decide on?

Nah, there's no ranks in MoW unfortunately. I just picked someone who looked the part. In this case a tank crewman who happened to be standing around smoking.

Wouldn't it be cool though if you could do this shit in the real game? Ie, after a campaign mission, setup defenses in case a later map involves an enemy counter attack? Also, carrying forward resources? I know the DCG mod lets you play these kinds of campaigns and carry resources, but not setup defences like this.

I do wish however, that they had some kind of custom loadout selection system. I like kitting out my men with specific gear, but doing it at such a low level of micromanagement (one by one, inventory slot by inventory slot) is a bit excessive sometimes.

Mm maybe throw up the idea of a quick inventory screen for grouped units or something like that on the official forums? Wouldn't think it's impossible for someone to pick it up and develop something for it.

And yeah, I forgot about there not being officers. I was thinking about the 'unit type' names, I suppose. Rocket infantry, machine gunners and other specialists (snipers etc) always seem to look more officer-y.

Had a 5 hour game last night Truly epic.

Started off with 6 of us, coop vs Germans (us as US).

2 commanders (players) were "re-assigned" (kicked) by me the CO (host) within an hour. They were noobs. I was keeping track of their score (kills vs loss) throughout the game, and they were horrendous. As soon as they their ratio reached 1:1, they were handed their orders (kicked) much to the satisfaction of the remaining good players. You really have to kick the noobs mid-game cos they just eat up resources and just get their units killed.

We played the overlord map and beat it after probably 4 hours. At one point there was a MASSIVE counter attack by the Germans (tanks, cars, infantry) and we lost the entire line and had to retreat. We hung back, dug in, and called in a shit load of AT guns and eventually regained our ground.

After we won, me and some other dude stayed behind to fuck around with resources (fixing, healing, organising - you know, OCD shit). I was hilarious. We amassed all the stuff and then messed around for a good hour or two. The 2nd screenshot shows a bunch of scattered ordnance and the 3rd shows what happens when you detonate it with a grenade

lol @ lined up tanks. I love the game, but not nearly as much as you I feel.