I think SA had a lot of elements that were stupidly implemented... like working out and eating. Give it some more depth and I think it'd be awesome. Kinda like adding Oblivion-style levelling to GTA. More depth, especially if it's optional, can't be a bad thing imo.

Overall I really liked SA though...the only things they goofed up were the new elements (in my opinion). Now that they've had some experience with that, I'm hoping they'll imrove upon it in GTA IV. But who knows. One of you console peeps should be able to tell us.

Well GTAIV is a lot more like GTAIII, with shinier graphics, a better shooting system and a bigger more lively world.

The only 'deep' parts is that if you hang out with certain people etc, they start to like you more and will help you out. For instance being friends with a dude named Jacob, will allow you to call him up and he'll drive over with a truck load of guns for you.

See, I disagree. I love deep games, Morrowind, Oblivion, Baldurs Gate etc - but I don't think GTA should be a deep game. It's about being a bad ass fucker who only gives a damn about getting him self to the top. Not about killing x amount of enemies to allow me to level up and use M16 +1 gun of wounding.

I think GTA's simplicity is why it was so popular, basically.

I've been playing this game on the Xbox 360 and it's fun...so far it doesn't feel very different from the other GTA's, though. Everything has just been streamlined. Some things still annoy me (like the slow cycling through glasses etc in a store, instead of getting a full general overview) but the movement controls and so forth are nearly perfect now.

The cellphone feature is really well implemented, and I'm frequently amazed at the sheer scope of the game. Apart from the many bars and other places you can visit, there's the 'internet' you can browse, you can search police records if you manage to jack a police car and so on and on.

Of course, like most console games it features the lame-ass save point system where you spend a lot of time driving distances to the fixed meeting place after a failed quest, for nothing. It's bullsh*t. Some missions are pretty impossible to do in one try and I just hate having to drive the same 5 miles just to do the mission again. If you're gonna have a save point system then at least save right BEFORE the actual events of that quest. Not the point when you start driving to the quest.

Other than that, good fun. I look completely ridiculous, with shaded 80-ies glasses and a Russian-style hat. I seriously fail to see how my in-game girlfriend would dig that, but hey. Oh and I always go for the bloody solutions. Just a matter of keepin' it real.

Hehe, welcome to GTA4.

Just a word of advice, you choices now have an effect on what happens later on in the game Be careful who you piss off, or who you choose to help you.

The game is great, though I need to finish it - I'm not that far in to it. I've had a blast on the Multiplayer as well - there's not much like going for a joy ride in an attack chopper with your mates firing rockets out the sides

GTAIV for PC is apparently being released November 18th. Its multiplayer will also be exclusively through Games For Windows Live (xbox live equivalent, I guess).

http://games.slashdot.org/games/08/09/28/0224218.shtml

Is that like Microsoft's answer to Steam? Cause if they keep the console layout = lame. What does GTA 4 MP actually consist of anyway? haven't tried it yet.

After playing some more GTA IV I'm really starting to get into this game. I mean, I LIKED it before but now I'm really starting to dig it...I don't know what took me so long, probably a combination of getting used to the controller (first Xbox I ever played), the console quirks (no saves RAAAGGH, the whole "can only buy a weapon after examining it first" thing, etc) and the fact that I'm playing it on a crappy old-school tv. It's large enough but quality is poor for a game that's supposed to be played on an LCD/plasma tv.

Probably also the fact that the first few missions are your average fetch me this, drive there, learn every command on the controller (a lot in this game) missions. So yeah, basically, I'm getting over the fact that it's a console I'm playing it on.

But the build and layout of liberty city is amazing. Sometimes when you're driving around at night, over the large bridge with all its lights lit up, you can't help but feeling in awe. Or the cool effects when you're driving through a rain shower at night. Very cool.

The missions itself aren't very different from other GTA's but that's not exactly a minus. And after playing a LOT of the game it still says it's only 35% completed in the stats screen. So yeah, it's positively ginormous.

For all its faults, I'm having a lot of fun with it. Nothing like jacking a fire truck and going on a rampage on the highway...those things got POWER. You're busting cars from the road like they're matchbox cars, barely losing speed.

But the saving system...lame dude, seriously lame. An example: you and a friend have to go meet someone at a warehouse but it turns out to be an ambush, leaving you to fend off 15 opponents in there. Once you clear them all, the two 'bosses' run out the back door. The only way out of the building is through a door blocked by a police force...and you've got a wanted rating of 2 stars the moment you step out. You have to kill the cops there and/or steal a car, have to shake the cops and then you have to drop off your companion at his doorstep. ALL IN ONE GO. Now, it's not the hardest mission around but it seriously pisses me off that I have to do all that in one try or start over, and not even at the start of the fight but actually having to drive to the warehouse first every time again. It only takes one moment of inattention to screw up, one enemy you didn't spot in time, a cop who comes close enough to arrest you, your buddy getting wasted, your car blowing up during the police chase...and you're doomed to start all over again.

Save points are one thing, but at least I'd like some save points IN such a multi-layered mission. It's just a lame way of extending gameplay time, MMORPG style. I almost threw the controller at the TV when I'd finally shaked the cops, only to have my bust-up car catch fire like an extra-strength sulphur match. I managed to bail the car before it blew losing some HP in the process, but my homeboy's AI sucked and he wouldn't bail before the car rolled to a standstill. Of course, the car blew, my homeboy died, and I had to redo the mission. Wtf. At least in FC2 I won't have to care about dumb buddies dying. heck, I'll put them down myself if I have to.