See again I am not so sure that is true - in some areas they have made it easier to shoot to kill criminals when needed - ie if you fear for your life you may shoot before trying to first flee acording to the new revision to the laws. So, in the old way you needed to first try to flee to safety - and in those few states who have made this change the crime rate has dropped. Because the criminals know that they have greater chance of being shot and.... those criminals are being shot - and while yes they are people - they would not have gotten shot if they were not doing a wrong..... so.... moral in my opinion is lets wipe out a few criminals and maybe we can sleep a little better at night. No more of this bullshit of releasing for good behavior which statistics show 90% of the time the criminal just commits crimbs again and usually ina more efficient manner. I for one will keep my gun and fight for the right to have it. Especially since i must add i have refugees sleeping within and easy walk to my house not 5 blocks away - I don't know what types of people they are. But glad I have a mean ass dog in my yard.

I didnt really understand your post there Shiny. But if youre replying to me i can assure you that pretty much how it works over here. Can i have confirmation from another European?

I won't answer for Shiny, but from myself.

Hell no.

Germany's considered a fully civilized, gun-intolerant, first world country. But from first-hand experience, I know that you better cooperate with the Polizei, or you risk being beaten.

England, you better hope you aren't mistaken for a terrorist, or you'll be held down and shot six times in the face.

France. The police carry Uzis in downtown Paris.

In Europe, you may have significantly lower murder rates than the US, and I'm happy for you. But you have this added security at the expense of freedom and at the cost of giving more control to the government and police. I don't trust the government or the police. There's no way I'd trade me rights for a drop in murder rates.

What do you suggest instead of cooperating with the police, shooting back?

I agree with Shiny in that the circumstances that brought about the US means that it would be very hard to give up the gun culture. But the circumstance that Satis referred to in Britain is unfair. It was an unusual circumstance and I would reserve judgement until the official inquiry is over, so we can decide from the overall evidence. To be honest Satis I wouldn't really care for a gun because what is the point. I live in Manchester, perhaps one of the more dangerous places in Britain and I have never been mugged. Yes my neighbour has had things stolen from his house but when I've got three dogs that are very territorial, no burglar would think of coming near our house and if they did they would not be tooled up and would either run or attack the person which, with three dogs in the house would not be a good idea.

I belive that there will be a time when any government becomes corrupt to the point that a revolution happens. That probably will not be in my life time - but I think it is important to have an armed populas - otherwise we would be throwing rocks while they have nukes - does not seem even? It in my opinion keeps us from being a 3rd world country - as when reason would otherwise prove useless we have an alternative where we could have a well armed militia of sorts to insure a more proper governing body. Again not saying this is an issue now but it could be - who am I to say we wil always live "peacefully." So in answer no - I personally do not know anyone who has not died from a gun except in wars or in taking their own lives. So, I guess I would say - it is not a problem really. Except in lower income areas when stress is greatly increased I guess.