cant be arsed with the whole argument going on, but i do have to say that i half agree with ox on the christian statement. except i'd extend it to say that ridiculously over zealous people of ANY religion are usually worse than those who just get on with life. I know I have committed far less 'sins' than most christians I know, and I'm a far 'nicer' (in that i care how things affect others) than these same friends.

btw the kid that trips over during lunch wouldn't count as wanton humiliation unless someone tripped him.

You don't? I think it's mildly hilarious.


11b: I think it's obvious that there's a difference between a criminal offense genre robbing old ladies, and being illegal in a country. The former is directly inflicting pain on someone else, the latter isn't. It's also clear why they can't go to the police. They don't choose to be criminals, don't you think they'd wanna be there legally if they could? There's choice and 'choice'. That doesn't make everything right, but a little understanding is in place.

Your 'go the police (and be sent back) or suck it up' thing implies that you could do whatever you want to illegal immigrants because they 'choose' to be there illegally...so basically, you reserve the right to treat anyone ever choosing to commit a criminal offense as you see fit. Dealers, burglars, murderers, even ppl who ignore a traffic light: they choose to break the law after all. Punishment is in place, hate isn't. With the possible exception of true monstrosities like child murderers and whatnot, but in any case something way off from the lvl of 'criminality' of being an illegal immigrant.

Bottom line is: illegal immigrants shouldn't be swarming over any country, true. But that in no way gives anyone the right to purposely degrade them, or treat them like crap. I propose that once anyone starts rounding up illegal immigrants, they do the same thing with dealers, the mob, murderers, thieves, junks, drunk drivers, crooked politicians and so forth. I bet such a society would last a long time.

so, someone who steals an apple at the grocery store is just as much a criminal as a mass murderer? That's...interesting. The degree of punishment is decided on the basis of the criminal offence, you know. There certainly is a difference between harming somebody and a statutory offense like being an illegal immigrant.


But anyway, the discussion is breaking down in semantics, so why don't we keep it at this. It's pretty safe to say we're not gonna agree with eachother in the end.