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ClanKiller.com :: View topic - Taxes
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Taxes
https://forums.clankiller.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=3637		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  derf [ Mon Aug 23, 2010 6:51 am ]
Post subject:  Taxes
I'm politically apathetic. I used to be kinda leftish when it came to ideology, so I didn't have a big problem with taxes, nor do I have a massive problem with them now, but I do find it frustrating that the government is taking so much from me yet I feel it's given me little back.

I'll run the figures through you. They are based on my current salary, which is below the average, but pretty realistic for most people in my age given the economy. But basically, below is an outline of exactly how much of my salary i give to the government. Some items are mandatory fees, but since they go to the state, they are essentially taxes and I reflect that:

6 % = Council tax (bin collection, roadworks, fire brigate, etc).
8 % = National Insurance (welfare contribution)
20 % = Income tax
0.7% = TV license
6 % = VAT (tax on all goods)
____
40.7 %

It just seems to me i'm not getting my moneys worth. I mean, in the grand scale of things, my life is fine. I'm healthy, happy and comparatively comfortable. But I do wonder if the Government could consolidate a lot of this shit, especially council tax, and give me a cut? In the end i'm paying for the nation, not the people, so I should just shut the fuck up and stop whining.

And I don't even drive. Now, insurance, road tax, MOT, are legal requirements and fees which go to the state. Cars are pretty much common requirements for all folks, so there's no point excluding them:

1.3 % MOT & Road tax
2.5 % Insurance
____
3.8 %
____
44.5%

There is other stuff I missed, like additional tax on fuel, beer, cigarettes, even admin fees (passport, etc). So the figure is only going to get bigger. I also don't own a company, but if I did, I would have to pay the relevant corporation taxes too.

[/rant]

Edit: And i'll throw another layer into the discussion. On top of corporation tax, how many of those companies should be nationalised and therefore free of corporation tax? Like transportation companies or authoritative bodies (driving, etc). Is that corporation tax that WE pay, the price for free-market advantages? What's the ROI? What are the cases?
Author:  Satis [ Mon Aug 23, 2010 12:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Taxes
I hate taxes. My country exists because some people didn't want to pay their taxes. Now we taxes too. It's frustrating as hell. However, my taxes are nowhere near as bad. Since I live in Texas, we do have a sales take (8.5%), but no state tax, so I just have to deal with federal taxes like income, social security (retirement and poor people), etc. Perhaps I'll contribute more to the discussion by actually pulling out pay stub at some point. :roll:

Regardless, I think taxes are shit. In my opinion, local government is only here to do the things that individuals cannot, like running services (fire, police), taking care of roadways, and thinks like that. State government takes care of the crap local can't, and federal picks up the stuff state can't. Instead I'm paying taxes into all kinds of shit I disagree with. I have no children and probably never will... should I be paying into school taxes? It's in my interest that kids get school... but... our school system sucks. Seems kinda wasteful.

Why is there a $4 tax on a $5 pack of cigarettes? Why is there a heavy tax on alcohol? The "sin" taxes are, imo, unconstitutional. They're trying to tax morality.

And ultimately... why do people in Congress make triple my salary? I say we pay them minimum wage and just buy their food and pay for their housing. It's the power they crave, not the income... how about we save a big chunk of change? The president shouldn't get a salary at all... after all, everything's already paid for anyway. But of course all of that's a drop in the bucket compared to our defense spending. *sigh* I'm gonna stop while I'm ahead.
Author:  Rinox [ Wed Aug 25, 2010 5:15 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Taxes
Author:  Satis [ Wed Aug 25, 2010 9:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Taxes
Author:  Rinox [ Wed Aug 25, 2010 9:33 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Taxes
I think there are similar funds here that are sustained by employers' contributions but they do not solely pay for unemployment. If I'm correct unemployment is all in the same boat as family stuff (child allowance etc), illness and whatnot over here.

22.65% overall tax last year? Wtf! Fucking USA. :D

I'll try to find my yearly tax review tonight.
Author:  Satis [ Wed Aug 25, 2010 1:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Taxes
Yea, you guys may get great vacation, but you get raped for taxes. I couldn't imagine paying the government half of what I make. Hell, I think 22% is too high. I'd be ok with about 10%.
Author:  Rinox [ Wed Aug 25, 2010 5:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Taxes
Vacation? What I only had 12 working days off this month yet. :P (not a joke)

Yeah, it's the payoff you make generally speaking. Still, I think - as an employee - you're better off in Western Europe than in the States. Not that I would mind paying less taxes. :evil:
Author:  Arathorn [ Thu Aug 26, 2010 6:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Taxes
Nobody likes paying taxes, but everybody loves good hospitals and good roads.
Author:  Satis [ Thu Aug 26, 2010 8:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Taxes
The US has excellent healthcare... if you can afford it. :roll: Western Europe has excellent affordable healthcare. As for roads, I think our roads are pretty good. Texas roads are actually really great, which is surprising for a state with no state tax and no legalized gambling. Then again, it seems the nearby states with legal gambling (Louisiana and Oklahoma *) have really crappy roads. The * after Oklahoma is that the gambling is on Indian reservations and I'm not sure the state actually collects any revenue.

Besides, the vast majority of my taxes goes to defense, which means it mostly goes to Iraq and Afghanistan. If we kept our taxes steady and quit monkeying around in foreign wars, it's crazy to think what could be done. In 2009, the military budget was $782 billion. :shock:
Author:  Rinox [ Thu Aug 26, 2010 9:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Taxes
Yeah, it's pretty insane. Still, in some ways the army is a sort of a social service (a pretty twisted one since it can get you killed in some godforsaken land, but still :p ) since it provides opportunities for the non-priviliged - college, health care, pensions, etc. The staggering cost of the military always makes me think of the Dilated Peoples line

If more than half the budget goes to military spending/then less than half goes to whatever it's defending

The problem these days is more the fact that under the Bush administration the army as an institution has been picked clean to the bone and is now largely dependent of (much more expensive) contractors for almost everything but the actual fighting (and even that isn't quite true). So it can be cheaper than it is now, but it would still be a staggering sum.

Re: healthcare: yeah of course, but what you are talking about is a private investement and not paid with taxes. You can still pay for additional coverage here too (I have an insurance which covers prolonged hospital stay for example - allows me to keep my full wage longer, get a better room, etc.) but the basic healthcare is pretty universal and of a relatively high standard. I get back about 80% of all doctor, dentist, hospital and medicine costs as long as they are not non-essential, ie I wouldn't be covered if I wanted to get, say, a facelift or a penis extension but there are other "grey zones" which are covered like breast reduction (justified if you have enormous breasts which can cause physical discomfort).

Roads...roads are shitty here. If you cross the border to Holland from where I live, you instantly notice a difference. Of course they also have speeding cameras set up every 50 metres or so, so you know. :roll:
Author:  Arathorn [ Thu Aug 26, 2010 9:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Taxes
That's why you can buy road maps / TomTom updates with the locations of speed cameras and most radio stations tell you where mobile speed control teams are... :wink:
Author:  Satis [ Thu Aug 26, 2010 10:23 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Taxes
btw, when I said the 'majority' of my taxes go to defense, I just meant a larger percentage than anything else... but it's only like 22% or something. Not 50%+ which is kinda what that statement implies. So... sorry about that.

Actually, I do believe strongly in the military. Besides the defense aspects, anyone can join (practically) and get themselves out of whatever screwed up situation they may have been born into. Totally cool. I'd just like to see less lives and cash spent on things like Iraq and Afghanistan. I'm not necessarily averse to going out and fighting for someone, but occupation is costly and not worth it. According to this Reuters article from January, we've spend more than $1trillion on Afghanistan and Iraq, and I'm willing to bet that most of that is from the occupation.
http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE60E0M220100115

In my opinion, we hand over reigns, move our troops out, and call it a day. I also say we quit giving handouts to hostile countries. Keep the cash closer to home. Turn our military into a mostly home-defense force with secondary jobs building our own country up. It'd be neat if the military would be involved in improving federal infrastructure like roads, power, internet, etc. It makes sense from a defense view (better roads = more mobile military) while also providing training for military personnel in things they might due after they get out. *shrug*

Ah well, whatever, no one listens to me.
Author:  Rinox [ Thu Aug 26, 2010 10:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Taxes
Author:  derf [ Thu Aug 26, 2010 11:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Taxes
As for Iraqistan, it's a lose-lose situation. Pull out, and the west suffers global humiliation as the two countries shatter, forming the ultimate anti-west terrorist breeding ground. Stay in, and the economic and human cost will continue to rise. I accept that the invasions were called in the national interest, but I do not accept to stupidity of the leadership during that time.

If I had to choose, I'd call for a complete withdrawal, cut recruitment to reduce the size of the armed forces and use those freed up funds for a "prepare-for-the-shitstorm" anti-terrorist organisation.

Anyway, I came to realise something last night. It was a warm night, but pouring with rain. I finished (and enjoyed) my days work and then immediately played (and won) my regular Wednesday football match. I got home for dinner, had a hot bath and sat in my outdoor sheltered area between kitchen and garden to wait for the water to boil. As the warm rain was hammering down, i noticed I a glass of wine in my left hand, and a lit cigar in the other. I had my steak and pasta (killer combo) then walked down the road to the local gym for a sauna.

Yes I don't earn much, yes I get taxed to shit, but I can't really complain. :)
Author:  Arathorn [ Thu Aug 26, 2010 5:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Taxes
I think the West should remain in Afghanistan. They didn't ask for war, but we brought it there, and now we have to finish the job. That includes the Dutch forces that were pulled out by Labour this year. Sure, we already stayed for longer than we promised, but Labour had been clamouring about Obama's election so much you'd expect to answer his calls when he came asking. Instead, they choose for questionable electionary (is that a word?) profits, even though Dutch presence in Afghanistan never was a subject in this year's election (and they lost the election too, so why bother).
Let's not forget that wars take time. Last century "spoiled" us with brutal but short wars, but let's not forget that there are still US forces in Germany, Japan and Korea. I don't know about the US, but South Korea is officially still at war with North Korea, there's only a cease fire between them. So the Afghanistan war may still last a decade, or more. Don't forget that many wars in Europe have been named after the number of decades they took, the nine years "we've" been in Afghanistan pales by comparison.
Anyway, I'm strolling far from the topic of taxes. This was more a reaction to some peoples' "let's pull out" theoretic.
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