Played two 1v1's today and dicked both opponents.

Luckily they didn't rush me, which is probably why i won.

Stuff i tried different this time included sending 1 marine out to each observation tower, which served well in alerting me to an attack which i managed to beat.

I also expanded on both occasions earlier than usual to get more resources for more marines. Then it was a case of paradropping into either the main base or expansion bases after having scanned them.

Me and Derf went dual Terran tonight and won two games in a row. We first lost two due to a) extremely lucky opponents and b) a lamer (he built a barracks next to my base) which made me semi-white with anger, but I channeled it into righteous fury.

Basically the plan we discussed (dual and constant scanning) worked like a charm. We had almost complete visibility of the map at all times and knew our enemy's army makeup pretty well. That allowed us to actually anticipate on unit types, like making vikings to take out the **** colossi and Thors for a zerg's 200 supply mutalisk rush. We als had a much better idea of where their expansions were and how well/badly defended. Made things so much easier and less like a crapshoot.

Of course, if your opponent goes for a crapshoot (like when they mass rushed my base's blocked entrance together while Derf's was open and only a little space away) move then you can still get raped pretty heavily Since you can't scan all the time early game and if your enemies go for a joint rush, especially zergling rush + protoss 4 gate rush (two most effective non-lamer rushes), you gotta be a tough guy to be able stand up to it.

Overall I was lagging behind Derf pretty hard on production and expansion, he basically won the games for us. I did my part but wasn,'t much more than that. My biggest contribution seems to be calling the time for attack - I rarely misinterpret an opportunity. Ok so there was that time we almost ran two entire armies of marines into a random army of colossi + stalkers but hey...

We should continue this tactic. Once I get more in tune with Terrans things should move up too. I still play Zerg in 1 vs 1 tho :p and won my two games tonight too.

Btw..Thor quotes are awesome.



Count the Arnie references...

"What is best...to crush the Zerg, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentations of the Protoss"
"What happened to you commander? They got you pushing too many pencils?!"

Doing some research. The reason why that single Protoss player yesterday managed to get up such massive armies was because of warp gates. They're ridiculous: they don't cost anything (10 second conversion from regular gateway), they can spawn units semi-instantly -they are vulnerable during the 5 second warp in tho - in any power grid AND the cooldown for the next unit is 10 seconds less than the normal build time of any unit previously built. So basically it allows Protoss to produce any infantry at around a 20% faster rate than with gateways, ANYWHERE THEY HAVE A PYLON.

The only downside is that they can't queue - so you need to manually set orders every time. But that's easy, w selects all gateways so you just click click click and repeat.

I also checked the Terran arsenal for efficient counters vs large groups of units...and guess what: the Ghost's EMP ability is rape, sweet rape.



If I could throw in 2 of those on a large Protoss army in a standoff with a bunch of marines...

Cloaked units are revealed for a short time.

Holy crap. It will require more micro, including the building and research, but basically 1-2 ghosts with EMP could swing the odds in most battles vs protoss. Worth looking into imo.

I was surprised at how well vikings fared against Colossi last night. Yes they take heavy losses from AA units, but it's worth it. I'm not sure if siege tanks are cheaper than vikings though, so it may not be worth countering Colossi with siege tanks, especially since i see them as perhaps more vulnerable and more micro-needy than Vikings.

A big LOL @ the Thor vs Muty rape last night too

I think if our next win is so eventful, I will save the replay and post a kind of screenshot highlight of the sequence of events. Just for laughs. Of course if we get dicked, I will just ragequit

Oh and Ox, you're calls are definitely essential. I like to scan like a whore and report what I see (like the time I must have scanned a forward army group 5 times in 1 minute to determine when they set off), but you seem to have a better understanding of what the enemy is thinking.

Yeah I gotta research how far their EMP actually goes first tho. Like does he need to stand right next to them or can he throw it down from a reasonable distance etc. But it sounds sweeeeet.

Mm good point @ siege tanks vs vikings. What makes them so awesome against Colossi (except their great damage output vs massive units) is their range. They can hit them from so far out it's not even funny for the Protoss. And they have another advantage over siege tanks, namely that they are great for hit and run raids on enemy expansions.

I'll be having female company tonight but maybe she'll be out early-ish, we'll see!

P.S. hilariously, AA turrets do a very decent job in base defense vs the colossus. Since they tend to walk in your base without immediate backup that can make a big difference.

Lesson learned last night: when playing Protoss, always expect either a) a photon cannon rush or b) an early void ray harass.

We played three games - won 1, lost 2. The first we lost we got outexpanded. The second I think we just got outplayed tbh, by guys who micro and make mixed unit groups. If we are up against Protoss again I'm gonna make massive investments in Vikings. We (at least I) just didn't have enough of them to stop the onslaught of the Colossi and air units. Protoss have stalkers to take out vikings, but other than that they can't really do much against them.

I'm not sure I explained the ghost-with-marines thing well yesterday btw. If you have a group of say 30 marines and 2 ghosts and select them all together (or group them) you will get the ghost menu screen when controlling the entire group. So you don't even need to individually select them to use the EMP. It's just click attack, click EMP 2-3 times and watch the Protoss go bareback. No micro.

Sure hate colossi though. I may go for more marauders nearing the middle game, to act as a frontline vs colossus BS.

Yeah i understood about the Ghosts, it's just that I see that as also a bit of micromanagement. I'll give it a go next time.

I think the 2nd mission we lost probably because we tried to attack early, but they harassed my base just as we were about to set off. Results were that I had to pull back, fend them off, and rebuild what i lose. You carried on but didn't really fully succeed in the attack. I couldn't join because they were doing hit & runs.

The harassment basically didnt allow me to expand or get marines to the observation towers.

What we should maybe do Vs protoss is:

a) Turtle early to defend vs rushes and harassments.
b) Paradrop
c) Expand (provided the paradrops put them on the backfoot)
d) Start building anti-colossus units

Last night was frustration central. I came close to destroying my desk in a fit of rage, even more when I kept getting raped on 1 vs 1 (surprisingly, because the last week I had been winning pretty regularly). Then I ragequit for a while and returned for another game late in the evening which I won - so I quit for the day.

Like Derf told me yesterday: it feels really good to win a game in SC2, but it also is incredibly, incredibly frustrating to lose one. Especially when they're photon cannon rushing your ass.

Btw, we fucked up our counter to the photon cannon rusher. I now know what to do as Terran: just make as many marines as you/we can before the cannons come within reasonable reach of your base, then put them on a line with "hold position" to where the next advanced cannon will conceivably be built. That was he can't advance with building cannons as the marines will take out any cannons that start warping in immediately. Then one of us rapes his base.

It seems I am finally starting to bitch-slap this game to eternity and back. Well, at least, the players on it.

I have moved up from stuck in Bronze (10-15th place) to 1st rank in silver and some wins under my belt as that nr 1 rank too. I should move up to gold soon if I can keep my current win/loss ration (about 2 to 1) up. But I don't care that much about that, getting to silver was my real objective really.

Anyway, what did I do? I adapted. As Derf (and anyone reading this thread) will have heard me whine about before, Zerg are just shit weak. This weakness manifests itself mostly around the mid-game, and is worse against Terrans (OP as shit) than Protoss. So I decided to opt for a really, REALLY aggressive early game against Terrans and Protoss. Not so much against other Zerg players (they suffer from the same problems as me so...not too much of a worry).

Terrans

I started noticing that some units are almost worthless vs. certain races. Terrans for example simply eat up Hydralisks and, if they have Marauders - which they almost always do - Roaches as well. But they don't have a real early game counter for zerglings. Marines are good against them, but in small groups and without medivacs a few marines will lose to a group of zerglings that gets a good surround. The only 'problem' is that they can tech up relatively quickly to siege tanks/medivacs behind their walled off ramps and if they do, you're pretty much fucked as Zerg. Roaches and Ultras are the only really viable frontal assault forces against a base defended by siege tanks and both are completely vulnerable to air (and ultra is Hive tech and shit expensive), so that's problematic. And if the Terran is any decent his base becomes unscoutable for you since he's got the best anti-air turrets and marines who can take out overlords/overseers easily.

So I realised I needed to get them while they were vulnerable, and as a Zerg, that meant zerlings with speed upgrades and banelings. One of the upsides of playing Zerg is that your opponent almost always considers the option that you'll make a really early rush. So he goes on defense and doesn't immediately tech up to tier 2 units. Which gives you the security of knowing he probably won't rush you (especially if he's Terran).

I produce drones, put down a spawning pool, put down vespene factory fast-ish, make a queen, start making zerglings, research their speed upgrade once I have 100 gas, then send about 20 of them near the Terran's (almost always walled off) base ramp. As they are running I put down a baneling nest and once all of the zerglings are there I morph about 7-8 of them into banelings. In the meantime I keep pumping out zerglings and send them to the front. Then I push. I run up a couple of zerglings up the ramp with the (slower) banelings behind them. As they draw fire the banelings destroy a supply depot, and -if possible- take out a few marines/damage marauders behind the ramp. As the supply depot blows up the zerglings waiting outside sprint into his base and, depending on the situation, attack the SCV line or the remaining marines. I've occasionally also attacked a factory's reactor so he couldn't produce 2 hellions at a time because they toast zerglings, but mostly it's SCV's and marines. Either way, you gotta do as much damage as possible, and early game that usually means SCV's since Terrans and Protoss can only make one SCV at a time it takes them a LOT of time to recover from losing half their SCV's. Thing is, even at half strength Terrans can easily recover vs Zerg if you let them catch their breath so I just keep putting pressure with hordes of zerglings. In the meantime I research lair tech and other buildings, but usually the zerglings and banelings will be enough.

I know you'd hate playing against me Derf, but let's face it, there's hardly another way to beat Terran for Zerg than to take advantage of their smug little walls induced feeling of security. "Oh what's that, you walled off and just made 35 SCV's? KABOOOOM!"


Protoss

Protoss require a completely different approach. Zerglings work against zealots and stalkers, but Protoss players rely less on their walls so tend to have larger forces early game than Terrans. Also, they tend to have Photon cannons up which are a problem for smaller (early game) groups of zerglings. And they also have a tendency to go early void rays.

So my strategy is to race to Hydralisks, which are much more useful than vs Terrans. It's risky since I typically won't have much in my base except production units, the odd zergling and a queen for a long time, but the same principle goes as with Terrans: players expect you to make an early push so tend to hole up. This gives me the time to...make drones, a spawning pool, put up vespene factories, tech to lair, build a hydralisk den and research their range upgrade. Then I start making about 8-10 hydras, as well as any zerglings I manage to pump out in between. I will have an overlord in place near their base early on (for vision for a nydus). I put down a Nydus in a corner of my base and as soon as it's up I load the hydras and zerglings in, and pop it in his base. the Hydras are really good damage against any early game Protoss unit and rape probes, but they are weak. That's why the zerglings are there: they wall off the zealots while the hydras take care of them. Once in the base, favorite targets include: robotics bay (before he can get a colossus out) and single pylons that power a lot of buildings. And probes of course.

It's a lot more "all-in" than the baneling one though, for several reasons. Protoss can make a really deadly rush with zealots which can come too early for my slow teching process. If they get lucky and rush to colossus the hydras tend to get their asses kicked too. Also, whether your opponent spots the Nydus in time or not (or whether you can place it at all) is something of a crapshoot. In my experience they rarely do, however. And sometimes it gets ridiculous when he attacked my base at the exact same time I loaded my units in the worm - and I do a base switch. I always make sure I have around 500 minerals before I do that tho, so when I am raping his base I can just loads all my drones into the Nydus, have them come out instantly and put down a hatchery immediately on his old base site. And even a spawning pool or a spine crawler (since the Nydus generates creep). Rarely fails.

So yes...I have become owner, destroyer of N00bs.

Even pwned a cannon rusher or two-three this weekend. So funny. Just keep on hauling in minerals, make a few zerglings and then when he's lose to taking out the hatchery just run out with all your drones and put a new one up at your natural expansion. Then make a few zerglings and rape his base. Hahaha! Eat it cheesers.

Btw the ranking system is bizarre. After I started winning a lot of games and topped the bronze league I was placed in silver and immediately was ranked as nr. 1. I'm not complaining...but you know.

Hey Derfmeister, apparently the patch went live yesterday. FUCKING FINALLY!

http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/842870#blog

Balance changes:

• PROTOSS

• Zealot

Build time increased from 33 to 38.
Warp Gate cooldown increased from 23 to 28.

Rinox' comment: HAHAHAHHA!!

TERRAN

• Battlecruiser

Ground damage decreased from 10 to 8.

• Bunker

Build time increased from 30 to 35.

• Reaper

Build time increased from 40 to 45.

• Siege Tank

Siege mode damage changed from 50 to 35 (+15 armored).
Upgrade damage changed from +5 to +3 (+2 armored).

Rinox' comment: OH GOD YES TAKE THAT SHITTY SIEGE TANKS

• ZERG

• Ultralisk

Ram ability removed. Ultralisk will now use normal attack against buildings.
Damage decreased from 15 (+25 armored) to 15 (+20 armored).

Rinox' comment: I can live with that. The Ram attack did a lot more damage on a single target but ironically it suppressed the Ultra's output vs lots of tightly packed smaller buildings (like supply depots or pylons) because it didn't use the normal attack's spash damage output. So it's not all bad.

this should help my game, even if I seemed to have it down a lot better last weekend anyway. It shouldn't hurt you too much either man - you never use bunkers, siege tanks or reapers (and by the time we mass battlecruisers it should be gg anyway).

Yesterday's game report together with Derf:

3 good wins - one which I won, one which he won, one generally good teamplay win. And then...a loss and a shitload of RAAAAGE from me. Sorry Derfy.

I think I need anger management classes.

We're definitely upping our game though.

I think last nights session was very positive.

Since the patch has changed the effectiveness of units, opponents that were once relying on a foundation of nerdlogic, exploits and build-order-sheets (most opponents) are now relatively lost.

That's what I found in our games last night. Since our cognitive capacity is greater than our clicking speed AND the games were more dynamic we adapted far better and showed them who was the boss.

Of course it's just a short matter of time before the situation reverts to what we had earlier. Ie, 80% of opponents using exploits to full effect.

I just hope they introduce these patches on a regular basis to unsettle the nerdlogic.

I agree. You could pretty much tell they were fumbling about. I should have known yesterday that the Protoss would not go for zealots now that they have been nerfed, stupid of me not to expect massed air or stalkers + colossi. But it showed especially in the Terrans who were pretty much without direction (except for that attack by those ridiculous reaper fuckers).

I also should have never thrown those banelings at their heavy-duty wall. It was a complete waste, could have used them on defense or in an ambush instead. That's a lesson learned for next time. In my defense, it looked a LOT like there was a passage between two barracks, but the game didn't 'allow' it. I mean you could see that a zergling would definitely fit in there but it couldn't go through. Misleading.

I actually witnessed that.

I couldn't figure out why you were fumbling around with your banelings, but then figured that the archway was in fact a solid obstacle. That made me a bit angry since the rush was totally ineffective due to a ... design flaw.