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Great article 
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Minor Diety
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Post Great article
On how religion is fucking up America(n politics) and the world at large.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15566391/site/newsweek

Apparently 44% of Americans believes Jesus will return within 50 years. Yeah, uhm...

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Mon Nov 06, 2006 6:03 am
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Felix Rex
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with a figure like that, the poll has to be rigged. 44% of Americans? According to some stats I found, only about 70% of Americans are Christians... so that 44% figure would mean that over 60% of Christians believe that Jesus is coming. And most Christians (in my experience) are only Christian in name... they make the right noises but don't go to church and don't really believe much of anything.

btw, looks like the link is down

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Mon Nov 06, 2006 7:16 am
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It's down? Weird...anyway, I'll copy-paste it here

Quote:
Dissent: The Case Against Faith
Religion does untold damage to our politics. An atheist's lament.

By Sam Harris
Newsweek
Nov. 13, 2006 issue - Despite a full century of scientific insights attesting to the antiquity of life and the greater antiquity of the Earth, more than half the American population believes that the entire cosmos was created 6,000 years ago. This is, incidentally, about a thousand years after the Sumerians invented glue. Those with the power to elect presidents and congressmen—and many who themselves get elected—believe that dinosaurs lived two by two upon Noah's Ark, that light from distant galaxies was created en route to the Earth and that the first members of our species were fashioned out of dirt and divine breath, in a garden with a talking snake, by the hand of an invisible God.

This is embarrassing. But add to this comedy of false certainties the fact that 44 percent of Americans are confident that Jesus will return to Earth sometime in the next 50 years, and you will glimpse the terrible liability of this sort of thinking. Given the most common interpretation of Biblical prophecy, it is not an exaggeration to say that nearly half the American population is eagerly anticipating the end of the world. It should be clear that this faith-based nihilism provides its adherents with absolutely no incentive to build a sustainable civilization—economically, environmentally or geopolitically. Some of these people are lunatics, of course, but they are not the lunatic fringe. We are talking about the explicit views of Christian ministers who have congregations numbering in the tens of thousands. These are some of the most influential, politically connected and well-funded people in our society.

It is, of course, taboo to criticize a person's religious beliefs. The problem, however, is that much of what people believe in the name of religion is intrinsically divisive, unreasonable and incompatible with genuine morality. One of the worst things about religion is that it tends to separate questions of right and wrong from the living reality of human and animal suffering. Consequently, religious people will devote immense energy to so-called moral problems—such as gay marriage—where no real suffering is at issue, and they will happily contribute to the surplus of human misery if it serves their religious beliefs.

A case in point: embryonic-stem-cell research is one of the most promising developments in the last century of medicine. It could offer therapeutic breakthroughs for every human ailment (for the simple reason that stem cells can become any tissue in the human body), including diabetes, Parkinson's disease, severe burns, etc. In July, President George W. Bush used his first veto to deny federal funding to this research. He did this on the basis of his religious faith. Like millions of other Americans, President Bush believes that "human life starts at the moment of conception." Specifically, he believes that there is a soul in every 3-day-old human embryo, and the interests of one soul—the soul of a little girl with burns over 75 percent of her body, for instance—cannot trump the interests of another soul, even if that soul happens to live inside a petri dish. Here, as ever, religious dogmatism impedes genuine wisdom and compassion.

A 3-day-old human embryo is a collection of 150 cells called a blastocyst. There are, for the sake of comparison, more than 100,000 cells in the brain of a fly. The embryos that are destroyed in stem-cell research do not have brains, or even neurons. Consequently, there is no reason to believe they can suffer their destruction in any way at all. The truth is that President Bush's unjustified religious beliefs about the human soul are, at this very moment, prolonging the scarcely endurable misery of tens of millions of human beings.

Given our status as a superpower, our material wealth and the continuous advancements in our technology, it seems safe to say that the president of the United States has more power and responsibility than any person in history. It is worth noting, therefore, that we have elected a president who seems to imagine that whenever he closes his eyes in the Oval Office—wondering whether to go to war or not to go to war, for instance—his intuitions have been vetted by the Creator of the universe. Speaking to a small group of supporters in 1999, Bush reportedly said, "I believe God wants me to be president." Believing that God has delivered you unto the presidency really seems to entail the belief that you cannot make any catastrophic mistakes while in office. One question we might want to collectively ponder in the future: do we really want to hand the tiller of civilization to a person who thinks this way?

Religion is the one area of our discourse in which people are systematically protected from the demand to give good evidence and valid arguments in defense of their strongly held beliefs. And yet these beliefs regularly determine what they live for, what they will die for and—all too often—what they will kill for. Consequently, we are living in a world in which millions of grown men and women can rationalize the violent sacrifice of their own children by recourse to fairy tales. We are living in a world in which millions of Muslims believe that there is nothing better than to be killed in defense of Islam. We are living in a world in which millions of Christians hope to soon be raptured into the stratosphere by Jesus so that they can safely enjoy a sacred genocide that will inaugurate the end of human history. In a world brimming with increasingly destructive technology, our infatuation with religious myths now poses a tremendous danger. And it is not a danger for which more religious faith is a remedy.

Harris is the author of the New York Times best sellers "Letter to a Christian Nation" and "The End of Faith."

© 2006 Newsweek, Inc. | Subscribe to Newsweek



I agree that 44% sounds like a very large number...but NBC is a fairly reliable news source where I assume they don't juggle around numbers lightly. And even if it's not 44%, even 30% would be HUGE.

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Mon Nov 06, 2006 8:18 am
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My feelings are pretty much reflected entirely by that article. But its not just in the US, its everywhere. Just the other day Saddam was shouting "God is Great!". That shit scares me. Firstly, how so many average people are delusional, and secondly, how many leaders are equally delusional.


Mon Nov 06, 2006 8:56 am
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Well, Saddam wasn't really a religious nutcase...that was just play to please the masses. In fact, Saddam probably pissed on Allah when nobody was looking. :roll: He tortured and killed fundamentalists and was on a constant brink of war with the islamic state of Iran. And he had Christians high up in his adminstration. As a dictator, you either get rid of the religious extremists in any way you can (Saddam) or you are the religious extremists (Iran). In any other case you're screwed. :)

Maybe Saddam is so crazy by now that he started to believe the stuff, could be. But he definitely wasn't a fundamentalist.

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Mon Nov 06, 2006 9:22 am
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Felix Rex
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well, I'll agree that religion is the root of a great deal of evil, but those numbers just seem mildly inflated. Anyway, hear hear to atheism. Or satanism...hell, I'll the satanism over christianity any day of the week. Well, Anton LeVay satanism at least.

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Mon Nov 06, 2006 10:39 pm
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Dawkins is our god!!! Lol, just kidding.

I thought: Religious belief makes people form communities, no? E.g. Christians hang with christians, Muslims hang with muslims...Then you have a group of Atheists. You don't see Atheists intentionally hang with eachother do you? This is the beauty of Atheism, it seems there is no need to belong to a group of people in particular. Rather harmonious.

To send this theory crashing, someone will now tell me that in the US there is a group of Atheist extremists or something. :oops:


Tue Nov 07, 2006 4:50 am
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There probably is (and Satis is their moral leader :P ), but what you are saying has been the topic of antropological research in the past.

When researching the question of howcome people are prone to identify with (artificial) groups like nations, religions and so on, it turned out that there's a minority of about 20% (iirc) in every population that is highly individualistic and is much less likely to identify with any group at large.

I should try to find that study. :)

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Tue Nov 07, 2006 5:36 am
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Im willing to bet im in that 20%.


Tue Nov 07, 2006 7:59 am
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I think the core group of CK are pretty much all in that group, so yeah.

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Tue Nov 07, 2006 2:35 pm
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Felix Rex
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yea, I'll go with that. I tend to identify with groups that think. Thought is all I really require. Unfortuanetly, many people are sadly lacking in this department. :p

No extremist atheists that I know of. Certainly not the blow myself to hell type of extremist. But then again, in a (largely) Christian US, being an atheist is pretty extreme in and of itself. You don't wanna know the looks I get from people when they realize I'm an atheist. :) Not that I make a spectacle of it or anything, but there was a time in my life when I liked to shock people... I was under the impression that throwing someone off balance was the best way to see what kind of preson they are.

Now I realize that throwing someone off balance can be dangerous to your health.

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Tue Nov 07, 2006 5:44 pm
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Hehehe...yeah, often it's better to walk the middle road and then, when they least expect it, lash out with you fury and skillz. I can imagine that whoring around your atheism isn't exactly a superb career move in a society that is still very religious (for a Western country anyway). :)

Btw, when i come over to the Lone Star State I want to do some shooting. :P I'm still opposed to gun possession but a) the US is an ocean away so not my problem really :P and b) that doesn't mean I won't enjoy firing a gun for once. And I'm too lazy go get a license around here, and too poor to buy a gun. :roll:

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Wed Nov 08, 2006 5:56 pm
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You can also go to a shooting club, at least here in Holland, it's nice for a day out with friends.

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Thu Nov 09, 2006 3:51 am
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Yeah, but shooting clubs in the US pwn!


Thu Nov 09, 2006 4:42 am
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Felix Rex
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yea...we've got two pistols and a rifle to play with. I'm sure Ox will enjoy it immensely. Assuming we can teach him rudimentary gun safety. :roll: I'd hate to have to violently disarm you because your waving a gun around like a moron.

Err...anyway... hear hear to guns!

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