These people you refer to still had ethics and morals. So they are a moot point - what you are talking about is society.

With regards to the ape comment, when was the last time you saw an ape in jail? Infact, (No I'm no expert on apes... except maybe ox... he's an ape ) I dare say that the only "murder" is when dominant males clash/territorial things. Which in their case, is an instinct. With us, it's because we have E&M

I too enjoy my own existence. It's nice to be alive. But we won't be if we (as a race) keep on fucking shit up. Sure, Mars etc etc are all storms and waste etc, but they don't support life (that we know) all the 'adverse' affects are just what the planet naturally does.

This planet naturally supports life. It allows trees to grow and species to exist. Only 1 specie on the planet takes more than it gives, and that's us. (I should start a cult or something... )

Ara - at what point did I say we are better off? Forgive me if it came over the wrong way, what I meant was that there would be no problems if all we depended upon was our instincts, as aposed to what we "want" or any other of the completely pointless things we indulge in.

Sounds odd, but to care, it'd be easier not to care. Just to rely upon yourself/pack/groups/whatevers to survive. We don't need television. We don't need phones. We don't need trade.

This way, the harsh and cold truth is that the uninhabitle parts of the world become uninhabbited, the weakest would fall and the strongest would live. There would be no jail, no law, no governing bodies. But it's all just idealism, which is never going to happen, so I no longer see the point in discussing it.

meh...you're making several assumptions.
1. The human race is screwing up the planet.
2. The human race isn't "natural".
3. No other species in the world is screwing up the planet.

We're part of nature...so, if nature on Mars causes desolation, nature on Earth causes humans. Whatever humans cause is still a product of nature. What's right and wrong is debatable.

Im sorry you missed out on that part of evolution where we throw feces at each other and grunt alot.

Morals and ethics are developed through evolution of society to help maintain peace, order, and well being. Without morals and ethics grown men would be raping children, women, stealing food , it would truely be chaos. Even animals such as monkeys and apes display a sense of morals and ethics toward each other. They take care of their own, they have family structure.

..."the planet would be better off without humans?" I didnt know the planet cared? Did it tell you that? Maybe it sent you a email? What does the planet have to do with morals and ethics? If we didnt have ethics and moral their wouldnt be any kinda of restrictions on stuff like air and water pollution, animal rights, danger speicies list, etc. We would be just pumping pure toxic gases into the air and not giving a shit.

I just dont get any of your logic recently. Are you sure your not sick?

btw you said your a christian in a previous thread. How can you be a christian yet wish the human race never exisited? According to christianity God made the earth for humans.

I think you need to rethink your ideas.

@ Mole:

I tend not to think too negatively of human activity because at the end of the day, the consequences of our actions are virtually non-existant.