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The idea was that the card was used for small expenses - in the newspaper store, local 7-11, cafeterias, bakers and so forth. Pretty good idea and very straightforward, but it never really took off. The government failed to make enough shopkeepers install it (and thus the others would follow out of necessity), and somehow people never really picked it up. It still has some staunch fans but the system is slowly being shut down.

Author:	Peltz [ Tue Jun 01, 2010 2:58 pm ]
Post subject:	A wild idea.
I was having a chat with a family friend today about the use of bank cards and how they still take too much time in a shop. So later i was thinking that what with the led screens being about a mm thick wouldn't it be more useful to have the pin keypad on the card itself. It would activate the card for say 20 seconds, long enough to swipe it through the terminal or whatever kind of station for that matter. There are of course loads of problems to over come with such a card but it would be faster than the current system.

Author:	Peltz [ Tue Jun 01, 2010 3:15 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: A wild idea.
In addition, the ability to manipulate the card itself would help in situations like gathering donations. For instance like in churches where people gather cash but those who don't have cash on them could use the card but instead of having to wait until the machine processes and the user authorises by inserting the pin, the collector could just move around seamlessly.

Author:	Satis [ Tue Jun 01, 2010 6:17 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: A wild idea.
I suggest that we come out with something like credit, but make it paper. IE, it's credit that's worth certain denominations... say... $1, $5, $10, $20, $50, $100...etc. Then, when you want to pay for something, you just throw down these denominations of paper credit that stand for your actual money. If you don't have the exact "change", then the shop can give you back the difference. Seriously though, cash solves all these problems. What's more, it's untraceable (mostly), so you can give money to hookers, drug dealers, or the Pirate Party without anyone being the wiser.

Author:	derf [ Wed Jun 02, 2010 4:57 am ]
Post subject:	Re: A wild idea.
I have some vague memory of some kind of faster card system is a science magazine or newspaper sometime ago. I think there are ideas like this knocking around. I personally don't feel it's a slow process.

Author:	Arathorn [ Wed Jun 02, 2010 6:27 am ]
Post subject:	Re: A wild idea.
BUT DON'T YOU KNOW ALL COINS AND BANKNOTES HAVE MICROSCHIPS SO THEY CAN STILL FOLLOW YOU EVERYWEHRE!!!1! ZOMG!! Seriously though, I like paying with bank cards. Yes it's traceable by a third party, but it's also traceable by me. So I have a good insight in where my money goes monthly. One look at my bank account tells me enough.

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A wild idea. http://forums.clankiller.com/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=3559	Page 1 of 2

Author:	Peltz [ Wed Jun 02, 2010 8:09 am ]
Post subject:	Re: A wild idea.
One problematic place is my uni's cafeteria where there is an immense pressure for 15 minutes. In places like these even 5 second win is notable when you have 80 people to process.

Author:	Satis [ Wed Jun 02, 2010 1:13 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: A wild idea.
You could go with a temp rfid card.... more like cash, you transfer money into it via a kiosk or something (swipe atm card, swipe rfid card, type in credentials). Then you just wave your rfid card over a scanner and it automatically debits your cash, no input necessary. Since that's pretty dangerous in a 'oops, I dropped it' kinda way, you could only put a certain amount of money on it at a time. It would be like cash, basically, but electronic. If you drop it, or someone steals it, you're screwed, but it's quick. Then comes the question about authentication and counterfeiting, of course.

Author:	Rinox [ Thu Jun 03, 2010 2:11 am ]
Post subject:	Re: A wild idea.
The funny thing is, they tried the exact system Satis is describing (and Peltz is asking for) in Belgium a few years ago. It was called Proton and basically it allowed you to recharge an additonal chip on your regular banking card to up to 125€, and you could just pay with it without entering a code or anything. Just put it in the reader and you were good to move on. The idea was that the card was used for small expenses - in the newspaper store, local 7-11, cafeterias, bakers and so forth. Pretty good idea and very straightforward, but it never really took off. The government failed to make enough shopkeepers install it (and thus the others would follow out of necessity), and somehow people never really picked it up. It still has some staunch fans but the system is slowly being shut down. With more government support (ie they could have just paid for all the terminals and cards) I'm sure it could have been a major success. Think of all the time and money saved by smoother cashier lines and having less change. Small for a single person, massive for an entire economy. If they reinstall a similar system again it'll probably be more like the public transport system in big cities like London: just one card/badge you swipe to get in and out of every bus, trams and subway. And use to buy a pack of menthols.

Author:	Peltz [ Thu Jun 03, 2010 3:42 am ]
Post subject:	Re: A wild idea.
Well i guess we wont be seeing such systems until the cross-european 100mb internet connection is done. I bet Estonia will be one the first to complete it because A) we are such a small country and B) we friggin pwn in internet related stuff.

Author:	Arathorn [ Thu Jun 03, 2010 6:08 am ]
Post subject:	Re: A wild idea.
We had a similar system to Ox's, but in effect it's not that much faster than a normal bank card. It's the same movement minus the typing of the pin code, but how long does that take?

Author:	Satis [ Thu Jun 03, 2010 6:59 am ]
Post subject:	Re: A wild idea.
Did it have a magnetic strip you had to swipe through a reader? I think it would be better if you had a small rfid that you could just hold near a surface, say a few centimeters. We have some gas pumps that do that in the US... you basically hold a little rfid card that the gas stations will issue you. You just pass it across this plate and it picks up your credentials and you can get gas. The rfid then debits your gas card or whatever. Something similar I think would work. The problem is if someone puts a skimmer near these cards and debits a little extra off the top. Or a larger transmitter that hangs over a doorway or something and just debits $1 off of everyone that walks through it. Would anyone even notice? Then again, I suppose that could be handled by every debit having a unique vendor id and having to electronically hit the issuing bank...yea, so, never mind, skimming cash would be next to impossible if you had to register yourself as an official vendor.

Author:	Arathorn [ Thu Jun 03, 2010 7:05 am ]
Post subject:	Re: A wild idea.
It worked with a normal chip that had to be stuck in the paying machine. The normal bank card works with a magnetic strip, but is being phased out to a model with chip (the current way is to easy to skim).

Author:	Rinox [ Thu Jun 03, 2010 7:24 am ]
Post subject:	Re: A wild idea.
Yeah, it's like a regular banking card: you just put it in and it withdrew from your 'electronic purse' without you having to do anything. The terminal is like the one used by normal cards, hence the keypad. I prefer the system you describe for the gas stations Satis. Like I said, works like that in the London public transport. You have a an "oyster card" which is basically an RFID. You could just top it off at every subway station for X amount of cash (or get a monthyl/yearly subscription) and then just hold it against the scanners in buses and subway ports. Super easy. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6dQBrzRdIHE (top up procedure)

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