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Minor Diety
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Post Re: Brexit
I think it's a mess only if you don't understand it.

1. The financial markets reacted as expected. The Pound went down against the Euro and dollar, which was expected, and continues to be so, as expected. The FTSE 100 was down, as expected, but actually recovered within 3 days. It would have been reasonable to expect 2 or 3 quarters of recession, but we got 3 days.

2. Thanks largely to Tony Blair, the Labour party MP's are ideologically split into one of two philosophies. One is believes in electioneering before principle (ie, "Blairites"). The other would rather withhold principle, even if it means losing an election. The alleged ineffectiveness of the party leader (Corbyn) during the referendum campaign was the catalyst to the Blairites collectively challenging his leadership, demanding a replacement. Corbyn has resisted, and rightfully so, because while his MP's may not support him, he was elected as party leader by an unprecedented majority of party members last year. So he has the democratic mandate to stay, and rightfully, he respects that more than the wish of his party MP's. In my opinion, the Labour party should split into two. One that believes in traditional socialist principles, and the other that is more liberal and conservative. Some may see this as destructive, but I think it's constructive.

3. David Cameron, despite having promised to remain as PM regardless of the result, ended up accounting his departure minutes after the result. This caused the Conservative party to initiate a process to find a new leader. Now, David Cameron is a well documented liar (i can provide you evidence), so the fact that he quit, when instead he promised to stay, comes at no surprise to me. I wouldn't regard this as "mess" either, because our electoral system allows for liars to win power. It's very predictable.

4. The new leader has been appointed, and the process of doing so is always contentious by nature. So this can't be regarded messy either. The selection of leaders is yet again inherently representative of our defective electoral system, which has been defective for at least all my lifetime.

5. The cabinet has been selected, with a few incorrect choices, in my opinion. Again, they could only choose from what they had, which was very little.

6. The individuals behind the Leave campaign were never interested in gaining power. Their agenda was to reform a very specific policy (EU membership). It's 'mission accomplished' for Farage and Johnson. The question of whether they run for office is another entirely.

Conclusion: The political situation is reflective of the times. Many people see this as "mess" or "division" but it's actually natural, and constructive, because it highlights the ineffective model of representation and party politics that can only be resolved by a new proportionally representative electoral system. The vote to leave the EU was a vote to leave an undemocratic and incomprehensible super-institution, at a time where:

1. We have enough domestic democratic, electoral and constitutional issues.
2. TTIP is being developed between the US and EU.
3. People don't want uncontrolled immigration intake and selection, during times of economic struggle.
4. People didn't vote for what the EU has become since '75 (and the EU doesn't negotiate reform).
5. The EU has treated Greece unjustly, in allowing it to join without meeting the economic criteria, then punishing it by imposing austerity when the economy collapsed.
6. Have free trade, which we're paying for, but its now possible to have without paying the full fee. The EU and Eurozone is experiencing slow growth compared to other emerging economies, so the EU is not in a position to impose tariffs on trade with the UK if it's not in their interest to do so.
7. My personal favourite: The EU is philosophically opposed to a more direct democracy, which I believe we will move towards in a generation or two. This will solve a whole load of issues modern society and government is facing. Some people think this is "pie-in-the-sky" but I question the scope of their ideological extrapolation.

"Well a very, very hevate, ah, heavy duh burtation tonight. We had a very derrist derrison, bite, let's go ahead and terrist teysond those fullabit who have the pit." - Serene Branson

Wed Jul 20, 2016 7:32 am
Minor Diety
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Joined: Mon Mar 31, 2003 7:23 am
Posts: 14089
Location: behind a good glass of Duvel
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Post Re: Brexit
I thought this is a pretty interesting and level-headed debate about Brexit (and other topics), so if you have an hour to spare on the bus, train or plane then it might be fun to listen to it.

"I find a Burger Tank in this place? I'm-a be a one-man cheeseburger apocalypse."

- Coach

Sun Dec 25, 2016 7:16 am
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