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Babies aborted for not being perfect http://forums.clankiller.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1845 |
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Author: | ElevenBravo [ Mon May 29, 2006 8:25 am ] | |||||||||
Post subject: | Babies aborted for not being perfect | |||||||||
I think I may or may not have discussed this outcome before regaurding abortion. I cant remember. Just another reason why abortion is and always will be wrong. If you dont believe that statement then you need to read up on eugenics and go rent the movie Gattaca. This is where abortion is leading us. Regulations are not going to fix this cause there will always be doctors willing to do abortions for money.
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Author: | derf [ Mon May 29, 2006 9:28 am ] |
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Ive got no beef with abortion. |
Author: | Shiny [ Mon May 29, 2006 9:44 am ] |
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I would rather abort a child for not being "perfect" than bring into the world some thing that has no future of contrbuting to society. If you think that is un christian than I am not christian so I do not need to conform to your beliefs of morality. I also believe that if we have worthless bumbs who do nothing for society we should shoot them too. So abortion for a child known to be fucked up is not a bad thing. Obviously I am not talking abortion for a child that may be a little slow, or have 11 fingers, but come on. Technology gives you the rights to know the health of a child then it should not be shunned. Additionally, if I knew the child I were carring would kill me I would kill it. I am not being selfish but who would be hurt by my lack of a child? maybe the father or myself. But who would be hurt by the loss of me? Countless people and animals. Therefore the benefits are overwhelming. Regardless it is my body and my choice. So stop trying to force all this damn religion down our damn throats all the time. We already have a religious thread going and people already said they were not interested in debating it at the moment. |
Author: | Satis [ Mon May 29, 2006 11:09 am ] |
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I don't get it..... abortion is legal. What makes it ok to abort in some cases and not ok to abort in others? It's legal. If I were pregnant (heh) then it would be my legal right to get an abortion any time I wanted for any reason I wanted. Besides, the problem with Gattaca wasn't eugenics, it was discrimination. Eugenics is fine. |
Author: | pevil [ Mon May 29, 2006 4:52 pm ] |
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as you all know, I don't mind abortion. But I do think it needs to be for a 'good' reason (i.e. we're too poor, the mother is a known child-murderer...) but just coz "oh, its not perfect"... well thats the crappest excuse you could possibly think of. Now if the issue was "well its probably never going to live past 3 unless you get that 0.00001% chance" I could understand that too, but when its just something like having some kind of mental or physical disability... so what? if they're going to be able to lead a perfectly normal (or nearly normal) and full life... gah i hate complicated issues like this. |
Author: | ElevenBravo [ Mon May 29, 2006 6:19 pm ] | ||||||||||||||||||
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Gattaca was both. Getting to pick and choose which babies you want and which ones you dont leads to discrimination. Lets say you have a school fool of children that where hand picked for birth. Then you have the few that werent. Your already creating a discrimination factor. Im glad you said this "Eugenics is fine". So you dont believe in evolution then? also
Your fine with this? |
Author: | Satis [ Mon May 29, 2006 8:38 pm ] |
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I do believe in evolution and survival of the fittest. But as a race, humanity has almost destroyed the natural process of evolution. Most kids, regardless of how screwed up, make it to child-bearing age. So, if we're going to continue to evolve constructively and have lost natural death as a selector, why not control it manually? And I'm fine with ethical eugenics. Grabbing random jews/muslims/catholics off the street and doing genetic experiments on them isn't ethical. But doing it ethically is fine for me. Aborting kids that have a predisposition toward stupidity/cancer/etc is fine by me too. Webbed fingers are not a genetic trait we really want to be passing on to the future of the race...it doesn't serve much of a purpose unless you plan on evolving back into sea dwellers. However, I think matching DNA for higher intelligence, faster reflexes, a more robust immune system, stronger muscles, and longer age is great. In fact, it's absolutely awesome. It's what evolution is all about, but we'd be able to accomplish it in significantly less time. W00t science! |
Author: | ElevenBravo [ Tue May 30, 2006 1:22 pm ] |
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Im not going to get into the technicals of this issue. Im justing going say that any kind of human manipulation in genetics and natural birth/natural selections undermines and could seriously hurt human evolution. Eugenics of any kinda is always going to lead to discrimination. There is no way around it. Your always going to have poor people who cant effort genetic altering or people who want to have natural babies (IE Gattica) and those babies will be out of the "genetic/eugenics" loop. You cant skip the work of evolution. Its dangerous. What happens when everyone wants their children to be altered as intelligent? Are they going to take jobs as janitors? Laborers? No, so youll have to breed some babies to altered to be laborers. I would have thought you of all people Satis would not want to mess with natural selection. Also, by selective breeding and geneitc altering your taking away babies/childrens free will. But then again, if your for abortion, you never believed in their free will to begin with. I mean, if its a womens right to "choice" to have or not have her babies then its her right , using eugentics/genetics, to alter what her baby is and isnt good at in life. Thus destorying any freedom of choices for the baby. |
Author: | Satis [ Tue May 30, 2006 1:46 pm ] |
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I disagree. Just because someone is more intelligent that someone else doesn't mean they won't be a janitor. I knew a guy in the Army that scored outlandishly high on his ASVAB, but what a lazy SOB who loved to ride on medical disability. That kind of person will be a janitor. There are also people that aren't genetically predisposed toward certain activities that do them anyway, and still become good through perseverance. IMO, through eugenics you're only improving that child's ability to do whatever he wants in life. Making him stronger/smarter/faster won't lock him into being a truck driver...but wouldn't keep him from it either. I'm not advocating a Skinner-like indoctrination farm. Besides, once the genie is out of the bottle, there's not putting it back in. Even if the US bans eugenics, and every other first world country does too, someone, somewhere will gladly sell eugenics to the highest bidder. Rich people from the US and other first world countries will flock to Bolivia/Thailand/Mexico/Kuwait to have their children genetically enhanced without anyone's knowledge. Which will make it so only the rich and powerful will be able to afford it, further locking them and their progeny into world control. At least if it's readily and cheaply available, everyone has a better chance of making it happen. |
Author: | Myrddin L'argenton [ Tue May 30, 2006 2:41 pm ] |
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TBH I side slightly with 11b. The principle is that abortions are taking place because of a defect that can be corrected, this is designer babies kind of mentality and we know that pure chance is perhaps better for us than anything else because of mutations and random effects. I agree that abortion can take place but this is abusing it. |
Author: | Shiny [ Thu Jun 01, 2006 7:01 am ] |
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I am glad none of you will have to make that choice then. If I don't want to have a child I don't have to- and if I knew I was having a fucked up child I would definately not want to have it. |
Author: | Satis [ Thu Jun 01, 2006 7:48 am ] |
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damnit, if I get Shiny preggie and the kid ends up not being blonde haired and blue eye, that sucker's going down the toilet! j/k |
Author: | ElevenBravo [ Thu Jun 01, 2006 11:05 am ] | |||||||||
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That doesnt surprise me. My wife is currently pregnant. I was thinking last night about the argument "its a women choice" and I thought "BULLSHIT IT IS". Its my choice as well. That babies is "OURS" not hers or mine. If she wanted to get rid of it (not that she would)I dont think its her right to make that decision without my consent. My wife and I have also discuss what we would do if the baby was born retared. We agreed we would still have it. I think giving up a baby because it "fucked up" is being selfish and self centered. Your not at a grocery store picking fruit. |
Author: | pevil [ Thu Jun 01, 2006 11:38 am ] |
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i do have to agree with 11b's point of it being 'ours', not the woman or the mans. Of course, that said, from a womans point of view if i didn't want it and the guy did, well.. i think the deciding vote would have to go to the female, since she's the one who goes through the pain of birth. And of course if she wanted it and the guy didn't, well then thats fine, the guy can just have no responsibility or contact with the child once born. |
Author: | Satis [ Thu Jun 01, 2006 1:49 pm ] |
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bah, that's not the way it works. If the guy didn't want it and she had it anyway, he'd still be liable for child support. And if he did want it and she didn't, you say the woman should have the deciding vote....so basically, if she wants it, she'll have it, if not, she won't, and it doesn't matter what the guy wants. We just need to develop technology to allow a man to be pregnant and move the fetus over if the guy wants it and the chick doesn't. As far as retarded kids...I wouldn't want one. That kid would have a horrible life and never amount to anything. And beyond that, it would be a burden on the parents and the whole extended family until it died. |
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