heh, I saw this and thought of Mole. Anyway, this is basically a rebuttal on why the "If you're not doing anything wrong, you have nothing to worry about" defense on spying is wrong.

http://www.wired.com/news/columns/0,708 ... =rss.index



Follow the link for the rest.

Yeah, it sums up that side of the argument quite well.

Nice article, though it doesn't change my view. Particuly parts like this:



There's a difference between having someone watching you shit, or someone you know reading a letter, than a third impartial party checking the emails you send to see if you are making illegal copies of CD's etc.

In regards to the parts about "Who watches the watchers" etc, I do agree with what it is saying. But that's what lawyers are for, for a start. Second, if such situations arose, there would be a huge uproar, not only by the public, but also by those with a sense of morality involved in the side of the watchers.

Nice article, though. I think I already said that.

hahahahhahahahaha.....hahahahahhah.

Yea, since when are "lawyers" protectors of our privacy? Since when is it a "lawyers" job to montior our privacy? Answer its not. Lawyers arnt a monitoring body, their purpose is to represent its clients. Without someone else hiring a lawyer to represent them a lawyer does shit. Trust me I work for one. Hes only out to make money. When hes not making money hes out on this boat, not monitoring civil rights.

What I was implying, was that if abuse of the system is present, you can use a lawyer to fight for your rights.

You run into a small problem there.

Lawyers use the law to fight for "your rights". (actually just money, but whatever)
Laws are made by congress
congress is the government
the govenrment spies on you
lawyers sue the government
the government makes new laws that makes what they do legal
lawyers shrug, collect their paycheck and go to their boat

Then, I blow up their boat, and go to jail for a good cause

At the end of the day, if it all came down to the grit and dirt of it, when things get out of hand, we would uproar. It's kinda like Ice Ages - they happen all the time, and yet we worry about them coming to get us (Well, Maybe not litterally... )

It's just the way the world turns. Power comes. Power goes nuts. Power gets overthrown. Repeat.

Mole I have a suggestion. Move to China, then get back to us if you feel the same way.

None of your suggestions are good.

Wait until you get falsely arrested. And I dont mean there is a bar fight and you get arrested cause someone thought you where involded. Im talking about full fleaged breaking down the door with ski mask holding a load gun in your face arrested. And youll think "I didnt do anything wrong" but sorry, your going to jail and they have a warrent for your arrest.

Yea, your mind will change big time.


Btw here a PREFECT article for you.

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/com ... t-opinions



He wasnt doing anything wrong and had nothing to worry about just like ole' moley. Yet he was beaten, druged and jailed for 5 months! And his lawsuit got throw out!

Wheres your lawyers now?

I don't think Mole at any time has said he'd be ok if he got wrongfully arrested. He probably wouldn't. The government and the system are as fucked up as the rest of us.

What I believe he's saying (and what I'm certainly saying ) is that your ideas are no good coz if you WERE wrongfully arrested, you'd still die/be stuck in prison/tortured/whatever. So they're actually about as good as what we have now...

Justice system sucks. Trouble is, its run by people. The people in the system are just as corrupt (if not more so) than those outside of it.

Giving people the opportunity to be corrupt and get away with that certainly won't help though.

Thats not what I understand mole to be saying. I understand Mole to be saying its ok for the government to spy on you as long as your not breaking the law. If you have nothing to hide then you have nothing to fear. He also said its lawyers jobs to fight back at government.

My point was even when the government isnt spying on you you can be, for example, wrongfully arrest. In this example a wrongfully arrested person was doing what mole suggest. Doing nothing wrong breaking no law yet still gets arrested. And in the case of the link I provided, a man was arrested, beaten, jail tortured and questions for 5 months. Again, he was doing what Mole suggest, not breaking the law. And! he tried to bring a lawsuit against the government for it with a "lawyer"(the saviors of freedom) and the judge in dismissed the case.

So my ultimate point is, if law enforcement today, makes false arrest after doing a investiagtion what do you think is going to happen if they have more power and spy on people? During an investiongation the law basiclly spies on you. Pulling up records, staking out your house, etc.

And if a "lawyer" cant bring a lawsuit against the government for fasley arresting and inprisoning a man "today", what makes you think its going to work when the government has more power?

The more power they have the harder it is to take away.

Ultimately, (given that I know we won't be here in person in the long term) where do you think we'll be in 10 years, 50 years, 100 years... so on so forth.

If You've got a better way to fight crime, go ahead and start your own vigilante group. See where that gets you.

The fact is, I don't have a problem with a third party reading my personal emails so long as they're not broadcasting things to other people that I know. At the end of the day, The government will still suck, no matter what will happen.

What is fighting crime getting harder? If we don't do anything, the world will be much more corrupt in ten years? Who told you that, Blair?