Ok #1 what the hell does christianity have to do with mexicans breaking US law? Nothing. so dont ever try to use that. The fact is they break the law. The law is the law. It not any different than someone turning in a cocaine dealer. I understand they are trying to get a better life but they have to do it LEGALLY. And it can be done legally. Im all for immigration. America was founded and built by imagrants.

And how is he violating human rights? I got to hear this.

The fact that he's gratuitiously getting off on scaring the crap outta those ppl by doing something he isn't in the least endangered by himself. (ie riding to the immigration office). Wanton humiliation of ppl is breaking human rights. If you and I are in a humiliating situation we've got several means to handle it, an illegal immegrant can only run faster than he already is. He's just doing it because he can, powertripping.


As for christianity...damn right it applies. I thought kindness for others, loving the poorest/weakest/hungriest/sickest above all was one of the basic pillars of the christian faith, and rounding up illegal immigrants as a hobby is hardly compassionate. That's the police's job, and it's a dirty job but it has to happen. That doesn't mean ppl should be treated respectfully (if possible), though.


And it's hardly easy to get into the US legally. Especially for ppl from poor countries. Even I -from a highly prosperous country with a good education- would have trouble obtaining a green card, let alone ppl from South America. They wouldn't bother risking their lives if it was all that easy.

EDIT: btw, the law, like the bible, isn't infallible. And a cocaine dealer potentially harms other ppl, an illegal immigrant doesn't as long as he doesn't go criminal on your ass. In fact, native ppl could very much take advantage of their low wage jobs etc. So they're not a "pest"

lol, no, actually it isnt. Have you ever been to a comdey club? Or watched stand-up comedian? The comedians humilite the audience and vice versa. Are you telling me they are breaking human rights? What about kids in school. The kid that trips with his lunch tray during lunch, humiliated, the kids laughing, breaking human rights? I think not.


Rinox, using chrisitanity as a crutch to push your idea doesnt help it. Nothing this guy did goes against christian beliefs other than the fact he laughed. The actual act of him picking them up and bringing them to a immagration office has nothing to do with being a christian. Being compassionate about a illegal immagrant is one thing. Saying its ok for them to be illegal is another. Dont confuse the too. That like saying arresting a drug dealer is wrong and your not being compassonite about the man. You can be compassonite about the man but condem his actions.



actually its not the polices job, its the border patrols job. When police arrest illegal immigrants for breaking the law they get out jail and have to await a immigration hearing before a judge. This hearing has a scheduled date at which 90% of illegal immigrants dont show up in court for.


So that makes it ok to just break the law? Just because its difficult its ok to break laws. No. They risk their lives because they know they have about a 85% chance of making it. And to be honest, they dont risk their lives, they just walk across the border. They are going to keep coming. We can build a wall, they will get a ladder. The only thing thats going to stop them from coming across our border is if we place military patrols on the border. After a few illegals get shot, they will think twice.




Aww, the root of your idea. See, this kind of thinking is what makes up the liberal mind. Lines between what is right and what is wrong is very hazy and blurry and never defined. Basiclly what your saying here is YOU believe that as long as "they are not hurting people" that its ok. Thats your belief but the LAW says otherwise. And illegal immigrants do hurt people. They hurt america. Why do you think the people in Arizona and California are forming citizen patrol groups to hunt down illegals? Because these american cities have high crime rates from illegal immigrants.


And in addition, if we just say "O, they are just poor hungry illegal immigrants, we can let them in", guess who else gets in, terrorist. America has a huge border/illegal immigrant situation and shrugging our shoulders at the problem isnt the answer.

cant be arsed with the whole argument going on, but i do have to say that i half agree with ox on the christian statement. except i'd extend it to say that ridiculously over zealous people of ANY religion are usually worse than those who just get on with life. I know I have committed far less 'sins' than most christians I know, and I'm a far 'nicer' (in that i care how things affect others) than these same friends.

btw the kid that trips over during lunch wouldn't count as wanton humiliation unless someone tripped him.

... Ok so another kid trips the kid, is that a human right violation? If for some reason unknown to me you say yes please enlighten me as to why.

So you agree with Rinox that it unchristen like of me to think this guy who is turnning in people who have broken to the law to authorities is doing the right thing?

i didnt say i agree with him against you, coz i dont know or care what you two are arguing about. i simply made the point that in general i'm 'nicer' to other people than most OVERLY RELIGIOUS people are. Note I mentioned nothing about the normal 'i believe in god, thats it' people.

I'm sure as hell a lot more bothered about other people than our christian Mole hehe j/k dont hurt me!

I do agree its cruel to take pleasure in watching the immigrants run in terror... but it was funny

heh, never said it wasn't funny. A lot of fucked up stuff is funny.


11b...read my posts more carefully plz. Inflicting wanton humiliation against people that have no means to defend themselves (ie illegal immigrants can't go the police to report this stuff) is breaking human rights. I wasn't talking about getting picked on at school, by a comedian, or whatever. This is what I said about it in my previous post:




Christianity: so, scaring people (in a very real way, I might add) for your own enjoyment -or even for no enjoyment at all, just to mess with them- isn't against the basic values of christianity? I guess it's ok then too for me to put a gun against somebody's wife's head, scaring the crap out of them, then laugh about it and drive off. Woo, religion just got a whole lot cooler!

Doesn't matter if it's the police job or the border patrol's; it's certainly not any particular non-law enforcement person's job like this dude. I think we can agree on that.


I think you'll find that ppl who fear for their lives don't care much for laws. Prolly don't even know what they are, depending where they're from. For the record, I thought it was clear that there should be strict control of illegal immigrants getting into any country, and that they shouldn't get in just like that. I'm all for immigration control and deportations if necessary.
What I am against is ppl that don't have anything to do with law enforcement thinking they can mess with them because they're largely helpless anyway. Or taking the law in their own hands rounding up illegal immigrants.

I don't know how dangerous it is to get into the US from the Mexican border, but I know that getting there from Cuba on a shoddy raft is very much a risk. Other than that, many illegal immigrants (not talking Mexicans and whatnot here) flee to escape civil wars, tribe feuds, extreme poverty and most of them are very much risking their lives in the process of getting there: starving in containers or the back of a truck for over 10 days in a row, tying themselves to the bottom of a truck, crossing dangerous waters on a makeshift raft...not exactly cakewalks.




Erh...that's kinda the point of the entire world man. Things aren't well defined, lines between what is right and wrong are very hazy, blurry and never defined. That's why we're having this discussion in the first place. So, by your logic, do you either hate me (really hate) or like me? After all, anything in between those is getting a little bit hazy. 'Liberal' is a pretty random term, especially to use against a non-American.

Of course cities with a lot of illegal immigrants have higher criminal rates, but it's not a simple matter of consequence. Improved immigration services, better border control, trying to counter the formation of ghettos etc.

So, if I see a guy steal a ladies purse, and hes running, and I trip him and people laugh, then thats breaking human rights? He cant go to the police because he just commited a crime. But according to you I would be breaking his human rights by tripping him then laughing. Even though he stole a ladies purse.

The correct answer is yes he can go to the police. So could those immigrants. Whats stopping them? No one is holding them back from going to the police. So their human rights are not being broken. They "choose" not to go to the police. Why? BECAUSE THEY ARE CRIMINALS by their own fault. So they have a choice, go to the police or suck it up.

I don't consider this funny, so I've split it into its own topic. Enjoy.

You don't? I think it's mildly hilarious.


11b: I think it's obvious that there's a difference between a criminal offense genre robbing old ladies, and being illegal in a country. The former is directly inflicting pain on someone else, the latter isn't. It's also clear why they can't go to the police. They don't choose to be criminals, don't you think they'd wanna be there legally if they could? There's choice and 'choice'. That doesn't make everything right, but a little understanding is in place.

Your 'go the police (and be sent back) or suck it up' thing implies that you could do whatever you want to illegal immigrants because they 'choose' to be there illegally...so basically, you reserve the right to treat anyone ever choosing to commit a criminal offense as you see fit. Dealers, burglars, murderers, even ppl who ignore a traffic light: they choose to break the law after all. Punishment is in place, hate isn't. With the possible exception of true monstrosities like child murderers and whatnot, but in any case something way off from the lvl of 'criminality' of being an illegal immigrant.

Bottom line is: illegal immigrants shouldn't be swarming over any country, true. But that in no way gives anyone the right to purposely degrade them, or treat them like crap. I propose that once anyone starts rounding up illegal immigrants, they do the same thing with dealers, the mob, murderers, thieves, junks, drunk drivers, crooked politicians and so forth. I bet such a society would last a long time.

Stealing a ladies purse = breaking the law
being a illegal immigrant = breaking the law

Both are criminal offenses. There is no difference.

You cant and dont have degrees of criminality. You either are or arnt a criminal. You can have degrees of punishment but not degrees of guilt.

so, someone who steals an apple at the grocery store is just as much a criminal as a mass murderer? That's...interesting. The degree of punishment is decided on the basis of the criminal offence, you know. There certainly is a difference between harming somebody and a statutory offense like being an illegal immigrant.


But anyway, the discussion is breaking down in semantics, so why don't we keep it at this. It's pretty safe to say we're not gonna agree with eachother in the end.

Ill put it this way.

You steal an apple from a store. You get caught. You go before the judge. He ask you how you plea?
Your options are: guilty or not guilty

You kill 5 people. You get caught. You go before a judge. He ask you how do you plea?
Your options are: guilty or not guilty

Now your telling me there is a difference between the guilty for the theif and the guilty of the murder? There isnt. They are guilty or not. There is not a "well your somewhat guilty" or " your kinda of guilty" or " your less guilty than that guy. Its black or white, guilty or not.

Illegal immigrant. guilty
murder.guilty

Now dont confuse punishment with guilt. Both are guilty of commiting a crime but obivously both will have different degrees of punishment. And Im not saying the illegal immigrant is any worse of a person than the murder. What I am saying is under US law they are both guilty for their crimes.

Now, I would say that is pretty clear cut.

This thread starts off without the main point of discussion. If someone would care to describe the argument for me, id gladly post my opinion.

In the funny stuff thread, there is a video of a guy picking up illegal immigrants for work, but instead drives them to the immigration office so they will get arrested and deported.