ClanKiller.com http://forums.clankiller.com/ |
|
Top court brands Belgian far-right party racist http://forums.clankiller.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1032 |
Page 1 of 2 |
Author: | ElevenBravo [ Tue Nov 09, 2004 8:15 pm ] | |||||||||
Post subject: | Top court brands Belgian far-right party racist | |||||||||
So whats up with this? link
[/url] |
Author: | J [ Wed Nov 10, 2004 3:58 am ] |
Post subject: | |
Well some points are slightly exaggerated, like the last part of the Antwerp (Visa) scandal, i don't think that has much to do with the succes of the 'Vlaams Blok'. But yeah belgium's biggest party is a rascist party .. go belgium jeej. I bet this news only draws attention of fanatic muslim-terrorists towards belgium. Btw it might be important to point out that we have a voting-DUTY here. Recently a study pointed out that they would lose half of their voters if we had voting-right. A lot of votes are so-called "protest votes", people who don't like things in our governement and vote for the opposition. And with all the cartels between parties and the different federal and flemish governements Vlaams Blok is nearly the only opposition party that's left out of governing something. The green party now as well, but that's because they screwed up last time they were in the governement. Need more info, just ask. I'm not going to go deeper into the party program if nobody is interested at all. Normally speaking i don't care much for politics, but the program from 'Vlaams Blok' is actually the only i ever read. This is only for discussions with Vlaams Blok sympathisants btw, since they often say "you prolly only know what the media tells you, you have no idea what our real program is". Which is kinda funny since the 'real program' is something that only the top people prolly know .. but blah. |
Author: | derf [ Wed Nov 10, 2004 9:35 am ] |
Post subject: | |
Firstly, it is obvious that all Far-Right parties are racist. Secondly. I believe it should be in the interest of the democratic community to eliminate "branded" racist parties from existence for humanitarian purposes. |
Author: | Satis [ Wed Nov 10, 2004 10:22 am ] |
Post subject: | |
is rascism not freedom of speech? If they simply espouse rascist views, without participating in or encouraging violence or some other, illegal action, at what point does 'free speech' end? And if it's ok for the government to quash 'rascist' views, where does the categorization of 'rascist' end? If I do a poll of average school test scores based on race....are my findings rascist when black people are on the low end of the bell curve? What about a race-based study of disease proliferation? Is that rascist? Before putting the smack-down on anyone for saying anything, the complete ramifications of what you're doing should be carefully considered. Sure, the DMCA is a great idea (*cough*) in that it's supposed to keep people from hacking DVD encryption schemes and thereby 'protecting' DVDs from illegal copying (at least, in theory). In the real world, however, the DMCA eliminates fair use and encourages patent-holders to sue people for not just breaking their patents (which was already illegal) but for just posting information on their security schemes. Or for making software that can interoperate with their proprietary, encrypted formats. Goodbye free market and innovation, hello lawyers and frivolous law suits. btw, saying all far-right wing parties are rascist is a bit extreme. It may be correct in the vast majority of cases, but any generalized statement is bound to be incorrect. |
Author: | derf [ Wed Nov 10, 2004 10:37 am ] |
Post subject: | |
As far as im aware, here in the UK racial discrimination is an offence. It doesnt do anyone any good. I believe freedom of speech shouldnt supercede the importance of humanity. In other words i think that people should be free to express their views about corporal actions, environment and politicians. However when it comes down to people beating down people, a line should be drawn. Authorise a semi-lethal riot squad to "disperse" the racist protesters. Like tanks with rubber shells or mortars with rubber explosions. (?) Last statement slightly exxaggerated. |
Author: | Satis [ Wed Nov 10, 2004 12:39 pm ] |
Post subject: | |
lol....damn...a rubber tank round is gonna leave a hell of a bruise. |
Author: | J [ Wed Nov 10, 2004 1:08 pm ] | |||||||||
Post subject: | ||||||||||
This question was one of the main issues, with Vlaams Blok saying that the verdict (that now was confirmed) was against freedom of speech. Important point in the case for the conviction was that Vlaams Blok repeatedly and systematically 'preached hate' against other races and foreigners. Vlaams Blok is simply going to change it's name now (to Vlaams Belang prolly) but they say their program will remain the same. |
Author: | Arathorn [ Wed Nov 10, 2004 1:34 pm ] |
Post subject: | |
Vlaams Behang |
Author: | Rinox [ Thu Nov 11, 2004 8:35 am ] | |||||||||
Post subject: | ||||||||||
Well, yes and no. The situation is kinda fucked up right now. Like J explained, the Vlaams Blok is the main opposition party, and the other (non-extremist) parties have an agreement of non-cooperation with the VB. (so-called cordon sanitaire) As such they have monopolized certain issues like immigrant problems. The VB does ask some (mind you, most of it is crap) correct questions, but because the other parties are afraid to be put on one line with them they fail to adress them, in some sort of weird political correctness. It's a good point you make about studies based on race, for example. There has been such a study here a year or two ago. The government appointed an independent (Marion Van San) to conduct a study on immigrants and criminality, and when she finished her report they tried to boycott it..because it showed that there is a rapport between the two. (she found that Moroccon ppl were twice as involved in criminality as Turkish ones, Eastern European immigrants are mostly dabbling in financial crimes and that criminality among Asian immigrants is virtually non-existant, etc.) So, they tried to boycott something they ordered themselves to be carried out, because they were afraid the results would boost the VB. Sounds fucked up huh? Anyhoo... studies based on race aren't racist, and they aren't illegal either afaik. If I say "Morrocons are more likely to be involved in criminality" and I have hard numbers to back that up, then why not. Racism is blaming/branding ppl based on their race, either deliberately or out of stupidity failing to see nuance. "moroccons are thieves" is racism; "moroccons are more likely to be involved in crime" is a fact. What the VB was doing was spreading propaganda, overgeneralizing and simplifying things, and they deserve to be sued for that. (although I have my doubts if this was a great thing, because parties like these like to play the victim of the Establishment) To conclude: complete freedom of speech doesn't work, and doesn't exist. I agree that it's an edgy issue and that there's a grey area where it's hard to thread, but it's not impossible. This is a VB-quote: "We're one people. We want to remain one people. Not a melting pot, not a mixed bunch, not a trashcancommunity." To give you an idea. The problem with the VB is that they exceedingly try to conform to legislation and look good in the media; but I know the VB in the streets. Maybe I already mentioned it, but my village has the biggest VB-voting % in the entire of Belgium. I had a lot of crap with those bastards here already, just because I didn't feel like taking their moronic folders, etc. Bleh, I hate extremists...and I'm surrounded by them. And Derf, semi-lethal riot weapons? lol A water cannon will do the trick. We're a country of strikers/protesters, so the police has a complete arsenal of water cannon trucks...you should see most of the foreign hooligans during Euro2000...didn't know what hit them. They'd be like "hah, it's water, how tough can it be?" and walk up all tough, before being blasted 40 foot away; unto a lantern pole. Now that was good TV. |
Author: | Arathorn [ Thu Nov 11, 2004 8:46 am ] |
Post subject: | |
Hehe, stupid drunk English supporters. |
Author: | derf [ Thu Nov 11, 2004 8:47 am ] |
Post subject: | |
An interesting post. Alot of socio-political-consequence issues in this topic. I wouldn't consider immigrants and races the same thing. |
Author: | Satis [ Thu Nov 11, 2004 12:27 pm ] |
Post subject: | |
Well, the problem with alot of immigration is that immigrants tend to form their own little communities. Such that even a generation or three later, they're no different from any other immigrant. So, in some cases, I think they are the same (or can be, at least). But bleh, I get beyond myself. My only point is to be careful with how you restrict the freedoms of others.... I'm in the US, watching my freedoms get slowly eroded by politicians and corporations. Most of my countrymen don't see it (yet) but it's happening. There are now things you cannot say, ever, or you run the risk of becoming a terror suspect and spending an undetermined amount of time in some prison somewhere, with no access to lawyers and no rights. That, IMO, is wrong. Whatever happened to the inalienable rights of man? I don't support terrorism (personally, I'd like to stab a terrorist a day for the thrill of it) but I don't think we should have to give up our freedom. Bleh...anyway....viva la revolucion! |
Author: | Rinox [ Thu Nov 11, 2004 7:46 pm ] |
Post subject: | |
You're absolutely right that it's a tricky matter. And it already says a lot about the situation that you 'have' to say "I don't support terrorism" y'know? I would think that's self-evident. I'm glad I live in Belgium, right now. Where they can't throw me in a gulag prison. (prolly because our army is too poor to service one hehehe) Some fucked up shit right there. Right now I feel like going to the main square of Antwerp and burn a Belgian flag...just cos I can. If I could be bothered. (the answer is no, of course) P.S. not talking about legally being able...just that I won't get beaten to a pulp by bystanders. |
Author: | derf [ Mon Nov 15, 2004 11:58 am ] | |||||||||
Post subject: | ||||||||||
Is this a prison made of gulag? |
Author: | Arathorn [ Mon Nov 15, 2004 12:01 pm ] |
Post subject: | |
Not Goulash, Gulag, Soviet concentration camps. |
Page 1 of 2 | All times are UTC - 6 hours |
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group http://www.phpbb.com/ |