Nah. It's largely true, but the reality is that if you grow up in a crack neighbourhood with a fucked up family situation and no serious education, chances are that your life will suck. No one's going to tell me that the fact that there are fewer ppl from lower social classes that make it to uni just has to do with motivation. Circumstances do matter...so anyhoo, I agree but I also disagree because

a) not everyone is as smart/willful as us
b) circumstances should not be underrated




@ prostitution: again like with the illegal immigrant discussion: prostitution has no criminal intent, therefore it is different from thieving. The drug discussion is a trickier one in terms of intent, but meh. I don't really care too much for ppl burning themselves out, but the problem would be rampant crackheads robbing/killing for money to buy their stuff. For it is widely known that a crackhead is bad at holding a steady job. Logically speaking we should only ban the drugs that prevent someone from working properly and lower the prices in general. Heh. Too late; booya.

It's very easy to create drugs yourself and making good money selling it. All you need is a barn and some chemicals you can get almost everywhere.
I saw a documentary today about people selling faked viagra, it seems to be extremely easy and dealers don't get arrested often, one dealer had been dealing for 2,5 years and had never been caught.

If drugs where legalized then they could be regulated more easily by the government. Just like alcohol.

Im glad your not a judge Rinox, you would probably let everyone off of their crime even rapist since their only "intent" was to get some. Under your line of thinking raping is ok because their is no criminal intent.

Prostitution lowers the number of rapes. The intent of a rape is always criminal, you're physically and emotionally hurting people and you know that when you do it.

Rape does not invole any criminal intent. Did you steal something? No, it something simply sexual. The intent was to just feel good.

I mean, putting a bananna peel on the floor and watching someone slip on it could be consider criminal too since you physically and emotionally hurt them but its not considered a crime. So you cant use that in reason why rape is considered criminal.

but rape is usually violent and causes mental distress. which is why they do it, otherwise you'd go down the club and get someone drunk. they like the fear they cause.

So it a criminal act to scare someone? So like if I hide in behind the door and scare you, and I know your going to be scare, then Im a criminal?

Everyone has some form of mental distress. And since the rapist didnt take anything from the person there is no crime.

Now, if the rapist beats her, yes
if the rapist steals her purse or money, yes
If he just has sexual intercourse with her, I see no crime here.

The magnitude of the emotional and physical damage done by a rape is much higher then simply slipping over a banana peel.

Its all in the eye of the beholder. Someone slipping on a bananna peel for a laugh from coworkers can be very distressful. So magnitude of emotinal damage is irrelivate. And unless the guys beats her or has a slong the size of my leg, hes not causing here any physical damage.

So what makes rap a crime?

We have established that,

The rapist didnt steal her money, didnt beat her, (both criminal offenses) what is his crime? What makes a rapist a criminal?

my opinion? Doing something to someone against their will is wrong (and, in the case of rape at least, is criminal). Dropping a banana peel on the ground to watch someone eat it is, imo, wrong. If it's not criminal, maybe it ought to be.

The magnitude of criminality between banana peels and rape is pretty large, I think, since rape has a tendency of fucking people up for the rest of their lives, whereas most people get over banana-peel gags fairly quickly. But magnitude isn't what we're really discussing anymore... breaking it down to black and white, one or the other, I would consider both criminal offenses.

What were we discussing again?

Ok so forcing someone to do something they dont want to is illegal? So what about parents? They force their children to do all kinds of stuff but let thats not illegal.

So their is a difference. What is the difference between.

Situation A:
A father forces his daughter to clean her room against her will

Situation B:
A father forces his daughter to have sex against her will

Something different is happening in Situation B and it has nothing to do with her will.

So I count force of will out. So whats the difference between A and B?

So if rape so far has nothing to do with;
stealing
beating
killing
force of will

What is rapes crime?

The use of force or the threat of force?

That's the difference between rape and consentual sex, one party doesn't agree but is forced to.

And i'm not even going to bother trying to explain the difference between cleaning a room or sucking your penis.

dude you got any clue what someone goes through when raped? It's not like you'd just be thinking "oh god here we go *sigh*". Clean a room, you'll think "stupid bastard dad, what a git, hate him *mutter sigh swear*" but thats it. Dad decides he's gonna rape you, you gonna find it easy to ever have sex out of choice? You're not gonna want to have sex for a long time. Sex becomes scary. I don't see many people having counselling for slipping on a banana skin, or being scared to walk down the pavement in case they trip (unless they're too old and might break their hip ), but plenty of people raped need counselling. There's a reason for that.

...yall are hopeless...


Would you say that rape is an invasion of ones body? Thats what I am getting at. Thats what leads to emotional pain and suffering. Its invading someones body. Your body is yours and yours alone. Unless invite someone to your body anyone forcing themselves on your body is an invasion, right?

Would you agree that rape is a invasion of ones body and that the invasion process is the criminal part of rape?

yes. no ones debating that. i think we're all astonished that you seem to think rape isnt harming them. unless you just worded your arguments really badly and didnt mean that at all