[Recently Amended]

I'd like to share with you all some of my mental regurgitation. It's been brewing up for a while, but it is by no means either exact or fully supported by myself. Ill give it to you in brief, for your sake atleast.

I would like to start off by referring to my displeasement regarding the unrest in Iraq and the terrorist attacks in our vicinity. I begin to ask myself a series of questions:

1) Why are the Iraqis not content?

The answer, as i make it, has been discovered from an earlier thread of mine. I reached the conclusion that essentially this is because of the sheer incompetence of influential figures not being able to consider the scale of post-invasion complications. So then i ask myself:

2) Who elected these idiots?

At first it came to me, but i immediately reconsidered. It is possible that the American people have got nothing to do with the election of G.W. Bush. When i start thinking about the astronomical levels of interests this man is capable of wielding, it seems reasonable to say that he was not elected at all. With the shambles of re-counts that occurred, this is only adding to the suspicion. Furthermore, he is the son of a former president and has considerable business interests. Making a perfect example of an unsuitable leader.

3) So why did Britain and other countries join the bandwagon?

A lot of us were fooled by the first claims that seeped from figures of the US government. Trans-national politics is all about give-and-take, or favour trading. In the heat of emergency, deals can be made quickly, debts can be cleared and favours promised.

4) How can we fix this?

The real wound has already been dealt. We cannot immediately pull out all of our efforts from Iraq and Afganistan. It would only cause more terrorism from enemies we do not yet have.

[Added]

5) So...Why why are muslim extremists "terrorising" us?

I take it everyones fairly happy with my outline?

actually, no, I disagree. I disagree virtually all of it, including the basic principles that you founded the rest of the argument on. However, I don't really feel like arguing politics, so I didn't contribute.

Yeh i kinda figured that. We have been talking pretty heavily on politics lately. Bad timing i guess.

yeha, same here...I didn't really look into it as I can't be bothered with politics atm. sorry, we'll pick this up later I guess

Can i bump this? You guys still sick with politics? Still healing from the last politics battle we had?

We've just been talking about politics still. I'm tired of it for a bit.

Aw man, you guys are pussies.

Well nearly all the last threads resulted into talking about political situations. I'm surprised its one of the few areas we stay on topic.

It's only clankiller logic: if you start a topic about politics, there's a good chance there won't be much talk about politics. So if you really want to discuss politics, start a topic about something totally different, it will derail anyway and possibly end up in a political discussion

lol. Slim chance it'll actually derail onto the topic i want.

Okay guys. Ive aquired more knowledge on this matter over the many months, so the value of this thread has somewhat decreased for me. But how about discussing this now and just to get your opinons on the record?

My take on it:

1) Why are the Iraqis not content?
Who says they're not? I think the average Iraqi is significantly happier than he used to be.

2) Who elected these idiots?
Bush? The US people. He was better than Kerry, and I still think that. Blair I don't know enough about to comment.

3) So why did Britain and other countries join the bandwagon?
Because the overall aim (removing a tyrannical rule from power) was worth it? Because they wanted brownie points from America? Because everyone else was doing it and they didn't want to be ostracized by the world community? Because the idea of having a military presence in the middle east was attractive? Because they were sick of having anti-west governments in place guarding the world's oil reserves?

4) How can we fix this?
I assume you mean the insurgency. The vast majority of the terrorists are not Iraqis, they're foreigners. I say you try to seal the border, you put significant pressure on the governments that are aiding/abetting the terrorists, you train up the Iaqis to defend themselves and stand up for their new nation, and you do what's necessary to disrupt the terrorists inside and outside the country.

5) So...Why why are muslim extremists "terrorising" us?
Because they think it'll work. Because they're blind religious zealots whose religious leaders are bigoted and backwards. How many popular, mainstream Christian preachers yell and scream about destroying the muslims and how you'll go to heaven if you do it? How many Jewish ones? How many muslim ones? But it's not the religion's fault...Islam is no wose than Christianity or any other religion. It's the society. Most of the middle east is brought up with a very skewed view of the west. Even in Saudi, the government smiles and nods at the US and proclaims it is an ally, but then turns around and finances anti-west groups and literature.

Yay, hope you're happy. I still don't really want to talk about it.

Allow me



I think you lack vision on this idea. Your viewpoint is one on the Iraq's "after" the invasion. The Iraqi people "BEFORE" the invasion where a divided people. You had your factions, Shiites, Kurds,and Sunnis. *Note- This is a very basic description and I do not claim to be an expert in Iraqi factions but this is the big 3 you hear about*. The 3 factions even before the invasion, during Saddam's rule, where not united. Yes they lived in the country of Iraq but they where not a united people. The reason that Iraq is in turmoil is because Saddam kept the country subdued under his leadership. Saddam essentially keep the country in such piss poor conditions and keep its people so suppressed than he actually keep the pot from boiling over. Now that Saddam's hand has been removed from suppressing the Iraqi people, the true nature of the people has been revealed. The Iraqi people are not and have not even been united as 1 country. They even had talks of splitting the country into 3. Also, when you remove a government from a country, chaos happens. It has nothing to do with lack of leadership at the moment. It has mostly to do with the relationship between the Shiites, Kurds and Sunni's. They all want power.



#1 What idiots are you talking about? Iraqi leaders?
#2 The "re-count" you are talking about happens in 2000. In 2004 Bush was re-elected to an overwhelming majority vote.
#3 what do you mean by "It is possible that the American people have got nothing to do with the election of G.W. Bush."? Are you saying in 2004 the overwhelming majority voted for John Kerry yet our electoral college voted for Bush? Or the ballets where rigid?



The known reason is that they believed the US intelligence on Iraq and its WMD's. If you talking conspiracy theories thats another story.


Indeed. We have opened Pandora's box and we cant close it. This is a lose lose situation "UNLESS!" the Iraqi people unite and get tired of getting blown up.


to you answer this question think us this. Muslim terrorist have been "terrorising" Israel for how many years?

It may be a bit of a shortcut but you could compare Iraq's situation with that of Jugoslavia after Tito. A dictator is able to keep it all together and when he passes away, hell breaks loose. If you consider how long it has taken for the Balkans to become quiet again you may conclude Iraq isn't doing that badly.
Off course the whole situation wasn't helped by the low amount of troops the US sent to Iraq and the fact that there was no post-war Iraq plan. I'ld like to thank Donald Rumsfeld for that.